John Goodman Career Retrospective | Conversations at the SAG-AFTRA Foundation

John, in working with Iñárritu, in kind of getting into a director's rhythm and kind of figuring out what he wants, were there lots of conversations during rehearsal? What was that like, the conversations like with him? And we did have the luxury of a lot of rehearsal time, which was great because, well, we learned our lines. But, yeah, we got to learn each other's rhythms and adapt and move accordingly. I got to tell you, Michael Stuhlbarg was throwing everything but the kitchen sink into the performance and a lot of it was cut. But yeah, it was just laughing at each other, doing like that. And the rhythms were pretty evident and then we were drilled into getting them, boom, like that, boom, boom, to make it very, very rapid. And it was a nice thing to watch. Yeah, yeah. And the payoff of the film, I'm just going to say this, is very powerful. And I think that there's a lot to that very interesting film. Let's talk about now going back in time. Let's go back to when you first came to New York in the 1970s from Missouri and you started going to auditions. What was that like? What was the process of auditions like for you in the 1970s for commercial work, stage work? I didn't get any commercial auditions for the first two and a half years that I was here. I had to, I couldn't get arrested in New York. So I had to go out of town and do dinner theater. By the way, today is the 50th anniversary of me getting my equity card. Oh, right. That's so weird. It's October 5th. Yeah. I remember I got it on my mom's birthday. Wow. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. Just going around, there was two newspapers, backstage and show business. You would clip out where the auditions were. Mine was all non-equity. I would show up if they had a call list, show up like hours before it and write your name down for a time and, you know, just a lot of shoe leather. I can't remember how, oh, I, when I was really down, I sent out a bunch of mailers. One man from Gray Advertising picked it up and took my picture to a commercial director. And I got a commercial and then found an agent to handle that and slowly built that up. And I was so lucky and I didn't realize it at the time because all the people I was hanging around were making feature films and doing shows. But I didn't realize how lucky I was at the time because I learned a lot doing commercials. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. It actually follows perfectly with what I was just about to ask, which is that commercials, I've heard it said, can be sort of this fast training ground for actors. I was going to ask what you learned from it and maybe kind of what you still think about in some ways. It was all technical. Take it seriously as a heart attack and be as light as you can in your approach, but take it very seriously. You don't have time. It makes you condense things awfully in a hurry. Condense ideas and bring them together so you can do them quickly and nail them. And I got to say, I was a little ungrateful at the time. I didn't care when I walked in if I got the job or not. I think that helped me in some way. It was arrogant. I don't like myself for it, but that's the way it was. And it just, there was an indifference. I didn't really want things so I could blow it off and that made it a lot easier. Low tension. Yeah. That's interesting. As you got into film work in the early 1980s, you did Eddie Macon's run behind a heck of a mustache, I have to say. Thank you. Yeah. Sweet Dreams where you were singing a mocking version of Crazy to Ed Harris who played Patsy Clyde's husband. Revenge of the Nerds as a funny college coach. Yes. But a bit prior to those, in 1983, you appeared in Michael Ritchie's The Survivors working with Robin Williams. In one of your first credits as an actor, what can you tell us about your experience working with Robin? I was one of a bunch of day players. I had a couple of lines. But he was, it felt like he was constantly, he had to remain to himself because he was kind of getting bugged by people. And Walter Matthau was in it as well and I just wanted to respect him and leave him alone. But he started following me around and throwing punches at me. And I go, God damn, this is great. It just really made me feel great that Walter Matthau was hitting me. And watching him and Robin play was a lot of fun. I know Robin a little bit from Hanging Out. That's my profession at the time. And to get into a scene with him was just wonderful. I just can't say enough about him. He was such a wonderful man and so much fun. So special. Within the context of hindsight, how would you describe Robin's influence on comedic actors who came after him and his legacy in the industry? I think it tilted a lot. It tilted everything towards more improv. He was a natural at it. But comedians started taking improv classes and coming from groups. Point the nose of the plane down and just aim at the ground and maybe hope for something to pull you out of it. Just that risk taking, that daring, and he had a huge heart. Even within his dramatic roles, World According to Garp, Moscow and the Hudson, there's this beautiful merging of his comedic persona and the drama that the stories needed that I think was really, at that time, revolutionary and set a trend. And it was perfectly done because it really balanced well. It was him. You're not going to get away from the fact that you're watching Robert Williams. He's not going to hide himself. That blend was just beautiful because it made the sad stuff even sadder. Well, in 1986, you were one of the stars in True Stories, which is a really wonderful film that I would love people to rediscover. You played Louis Fine, who's a really sweet character. This is a wonderfully quirky and one-of-a-kind film. It's directed by David Byrne, the only film he ever directed, David Byrne of the Talking Heads. And it's sort of this pastiche of strange stories from what was, at the time, the fairly innocent crazy stories and tabloids like the Weekly World News, tales of ordinary people doing sort of extraordinary or strange things. Louis's extraordinary thing is that he's a sweetheart of a guy looking for romance. What did you think about him? How did you kind of approach that character and within the context of that film? I took the lonely, shy part of myself and relied on it for a lot of things, how he would react to things. He, I don't want to say desperate for love, but he is, you know, in a very gentle way. And it's genuine love, not just lust or anything else. He was just a sweet guy and fit in that environment. What a weird environment it was. And that was, I read an article on it the other day and it really took me back there. 1985 in Dallas. But yeah, everybody was wonderful and it looked great. Yeah, it does look great. It's a really, it's a one-of-a-kind film. A few years later, you played Gale Snopes, who with his brother is one of the finest pair who ever broke and entered in the Coen Brothers Raising Arizona, which is one of my favorite comedies. It's your first collaboration. Yes. Yeah, my guy was a criminal genius with a two-digit IQ. Yeah, it is one of my favorite comedies. You're hilarious in it. And it obviously started a great connection with the Coen Brothers that gave us so many great films that we're going to be talking about. Talk to us about how your specific approach and process of mixing with the Coens helped make that role and that film so memorable, John. Everything Joel and Ethan put on the page was my character. There wasn't a lot of heavy lifting to be done. They were so much fun to work with. I would go to the set when I was off just to hang with those guys because, yeah, they were so remarkably funny. They were Midwestern wise guys just like me. We had like a shared Young Man's Mad Magazine sensibility. It made me laugh all the time. Yeah, yeah. And at the time you were coming off of Big River, which won the Best Musical for that year for 1985. You were nominated for a Drama Desk Award for Best Supporting Actor in a Musical. I didn't know that. Yeah, you did. And... Ah! Ah! You played Pap Finn. What tools did you kind of use for that production and in that particular stage production that you maybe hadn't used before and that you've hung on to since? Main run deck. Yeah. Yeah, I knew a lot of them from St. Louis. I was just an alcoholic with no logic except, where's my next drink? I was fortunate. I did the play the year before at the La Jolla Playhouse. I was there for three shows that summer, saw a lot, learned a lot, and we had a three-hour version that worked. It's not feasible for Broadway, but it was a real good version. They condensed it a little bit and put it up on Broadway, but it was just my observation of a few people I knew and put it into the story. Played with Danny Huck a lot, and we got it, and Des McEnough directed that. Des gave me a job in 1981 in Henry IV Part I, which was spectacular and wonderful, and I finally got it into the public theater. Well, we just talked about Raising Arizona, which makes me laugh even just the thought of it, but I also want to bring a punchline in 1988, which is a wonderful little comedy with Sally Field, dramedy actually, with Sally Field and Tom Hanks playing wannabe stand-ups, but you play Sally Field's husband, and no spoiler here, but part of the importance of the end of the film is that your character laughs at her stand-up. And I would like to hear, and I bet the actors in the room would like to hear, when you have to do that laugh over and over again, because it's several takes on a film, how do you kind of keep that going? It's almost like telephone acting, right? Like the laughter of being an audience member, how does that sort of take place? Just think of something funny. Like Raising Arizona? Every time, something different. I knew that was going to come up, so just keep it fresh, keep it light, and then play off of Sally, who is just wonderful. That was a weird film, because I got to hang out with a lot of comics who were coming up at the time, and that was fun. That was pure fun. Well, in 1988, that same year, you created the role of Dan Conner, one of the great TV characters, yes, in one of the great television shows, Roseanne. I think that whole show, and Dan, is such an important reflection of a marriage that is funny, and tender, and committed, and honest, and real. I'm not kidding when I say I think it is one of the great American sitcoms, one of the great American television programs. How did it kind of feel getting in the rhythms of a weekly show, John, and how did you see Dan from the start? I did it to put living out of a suitcase, but the pilot had a lot of potential. I hit it off with Rose immediately, to the point where, and not in an arrogant way, I just knew when I left, I had the job. It was just that much of a feeling, we hit it off. At the time, the hot shows in television were all like wealth porn, like Dynasty, Dallas, stuff like that, and we were sober reality. Rose said something early on, that just because we're poor, doesn't make us stupid. The reason that family stayed together was because of laughter, and obvious love, and I think that showed on the screen in a real way. It was wonderful, just week after week, you got a study gig, and so goddamn lucky to have it. Absolutely. Thank you. And that's right, it is kind of ground, it's more than groundbreaking, I think it's really a seminal show in terms of its representation of the Connors and the space that they occupy. A few years ago, the show and Dan came back on The Connors. Dan was older, he was widowed, he was a grandfather, and his view of life had changed a little bit. Talk to us about coming back to the character, and how you wanted him to maybe reflect the changes in the world and in life in general. I think the scripts did that, age played its own self, as it does every goddamn day. What doesn't hurt this morning, let's work on that, see if we can get it in tune with the rest of the body. Oh yeah, there's that kick in the neck I was looking for, check that off. We still had the same sweetness, still just living paycheck to paycheck, if there is a paycheck, trying to get by with a larger family. They were the challenges of today. And they were very lucky to have a roof over their head. That's about it. Yeah, and even Dan dating as a widower, it's all handled so beautifully in The Connors. Yeah, they did a great job producing. Back to the 80s now, and while you did some great work right after Raising Arizona, including the Big Easy, which is a really fun thriller, and that was your first cinematic pairing with New Orleans, your beloved New Orleans, I think we're gonna plow ahead with the rest of your collaborations with your Coen brothers, John, because once you start thinking about one, you think about them all. So in 1991, Barton Fink won the Palme d'Or at Cannes that year, and as I think is a fantastic example of how you in particular can blend all these different layers into a character. Charlie Meadows, aka Carl Madmont, was written for you by the brothers, by the Coen brothers, and he is a sympathetic guy, even though he, as we find out throughout the film, has got some scary shades to him. He's got some bad habits. He's got some bad habits, yeah. I think the actors with us here would love to know if you prepared differently for a role like that, because that was so different from what you had done before. Once again, with Joel and Ethan, it was all on the page. Don't fool with it. If it works, give it air and leave it alone. I've often said I would like to go back and do parts of it again. I think I'm a better actor now, and I told that to Sandra Hooler last week, who almost hit me. So if I got her okay on it, I'm okay with it, but I just love that film. It was so wonderful. Yeah, I did that right after I did King Ralph on my summer break. I went right into Barton Fink, carried that into the fall, but that was just lovely work. They just hired Roger Deakins to film it, which was the beginning of their collaboration, and what more can I say? It was all on the page. John Turturro was masterful, peerless, peerless, don't pop. Well, in addition to it all being on the page, I also want to say it is also on your faces, because Deakins and the Coens used so many great close-ups in that film, and in a really meaningful way, because you can really, there's instances where Turturro will say something and we'll be watching your reaction, and then as he'll continue to say something and Meadows kind of, his feelings are a little hurt a little bit, we see it on your face. Did you kind of work in some ways to kind of understand the close-up in a different way? Because I think that was one of the first times that came up for you. I didn't even think about it. Yeah. I just, yeah, I gave my heart to this guy, and he's turning out to be a gas bag. He doesn't listen, so I, okay, Bart. Yeah, just what you would do in real life if you're a mass murderer talking to a guy who's writing a screenplay in California. I think. Well, let's jump ahead, because just speaking of Coen Brothers Films, and of course, The Big Lebowski in 1998. That didn't get very good reviews when it opened, did it? Ah, what do critics know? It brought the world Walter Sobchack, and he is an amazing piece of art, really. And his friendship with the dude, played by Jeff Bridges, is sweet, even if it's argumentative and even if Walter is Shobber Shabbos, and you gotta, you know, the two of them are a team. How did you kind of craft Walter, and what were those conversations with the Coens like about that character? Because he is so much sort of bigger than life. We had the luxury of a little bit of rehearsal. We got to read it through a few times. Working with Jeff was a dream, because he's Jeff Bridges. Hey, man, yeah, okay. Jeff, we're going to jump off that bridge now. Yeah, okay, man. Beautiful, man. Once again, they'd say, we want you to get to wear your facial hair a certain way, and I said, like a chin strap. Exactly. You know, the hair was perfect. Little stuff like that, the costumes, the wardrobe, everything that was on the page. Steve Buscemi giving his heart, you know, without many lines right behind us, and the conflicts, and just fun. Just pure fun. I often think that part of the power of Walter is his matter-of-factness. These men are nihilists, Donnie. They don't believe in anything. You know, there's sort of this, it's a comedic line, but you play it straight, right? Say what you want about National Socialism, at least it's an ethos. I was in Iceland last year, and there is a Big Lebowski bar in Reykjavik that is surely not the strangest or wildest homage to the film, but what do you credit the immense popularity of the film to, John? It's different. It's certainly different, and it's funny. That's basically it. And it's got such an originality to it, yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's an old Saw detective movie, a noir, in sunny California, with a cat that buys half and half with a Ralphs card. Yeah, right. By the way, I'm sure you found this as well, but when people who don't know that it's a riff on The Big Sleep, or that it's a noir, like when you explain to them, they're like, their eyes widen, and they go, oh wow, right, yeah, right, exactly. Yeah, when the sheriff tells the dude to stay out of Malibu, and it's like them telling Marlowe, stay out of Bay City. Right, that's right, that's right, yeah. Did you, and I'm just going to interrupt for a second and ask you, in working with your reps, your agents, your managers, publicists at that time, did that change at all as your work picked up in the late 80s, or your connection with audiences and filmmakers became a little bit more solid in the 1990s? I engaged in 88 with Roseanne. That's when I was told, you better get a publicist and get a hold of this stuff. And I just, I had a bad time dealing with how famous I got all of a sudden, and I said, well, that ain't me. And it took a long time to deal with it. So I got that out of the way, but just the negotiations you have to go through, the things you have to do to sell a film, they're not ideal, but they need to be done. People put a lot of money into these things, and let's help each other out and get this done. They have their job to do, and you have to support it. And I bet all actors probably have this same issue, but I'm curious, with agents and managers too, probably there were roles coming to you that you either didn't want or weren't right for, but there were more coming to you than maybe you had previous years, and that must have been a learning curve as well. Yeah, you don't have to do everything. It's nice to be in that position, though. Better than not. Better than waiting for the damn phone to ring. Yeah. Yeah, that's basically it. A lot of scripts come to you that are just no-go from the jump street. Yeah, yeah. Well, in 2000, you did Oh Brother Where Art Thou?, which was, yes, another great, fantastic Coen Brothers film. Played Big Dan, the eyepatch-wearing thug in the 1930s world that the Coens created. He is based upon The Cyclops, which of course we are now talking about The Odyssey this year, which I always loved then at the time. The Coen Brothers said, yeah, no, we never read it. We never read it. You just know about it. That character, there's sort of this level to him when he's talking to them and he says to George Clooney, I appreciate that you guys refrain from the conversational hiatus, and there's this poetry to the language there. And while that's always there in the Coen Brothers, that was a little bit more heightened there and with some physicality. How did you approach that particular role, John? Like a very delicate man, like a very fastidious, I appreciate the positive conversation. It helps with the gustation. Yeah, yeah, right. And I'm going around telling him how I'm going to hurt him. Yeah. I don't think I know what you mean, Big Dan. And I'll whop him across the head with a log. Right. It's always fun to hit George. He's asking for it, right? Yeah. And then in 2013, you gave another great turn in the exquisite Inside Llewyn Davis, which is one of my favorite films of theirs. Yes. You played jazz musician Roland Turner. I remember when the film premiered at the New York Film Festival, you guys were on stage talking about it, and you said the Coens at one point told you, as Roland walks with the crutches and the high camera angle. The sticks. The sticks. They wanted a bit more Everett Sloan. Yeah. Yeah, because it's like the lady from Shanghai, sort of this walk with the canes. We had that kind of shortcut. I knew immediately what they meant. Yeah. And that must be such a beautiful comfort spot with filmmakers, where they can just say, we want a little bit more Everett Sloan, more this, less of that, and you have that shorthand. Well, yeah. When we were doing Raising Arizona, I had to be startled. I said, do you want a spanky take here? They knew what I meant. Spanky one or spanky two. Just shorthand like that. Yeah. Yeah. It also reminds me, in some ways, there's a connection between Roland and his haircut with Jerry Mulligan and some of the great jazz artists of the 50s and 60s, that there's sort of this level of eccentricity to them, that even in a world of crazy, funky guys, they were their own bros. Yeah, they could carry it. Monk Thelonious, Monk with a Hat. That's right. I just, I don't know why I landed on Jerry Mulligan's haircut. Yeah. It was like an early bowl cut or something. Very short, but clean. And I think that's how Roland looked in himself, as an artiste of the first stripe, you know, riding in the backseat with some kid. Right. Just going to another gig. And yeah, he had another bad habit. Yeah, he did. Yeah. But I just love that movie. I love that era, the beginning of the folk scene, beginning of Dylan. I mean, it wasn't the beginning of the folk scene. It was during the folk scene in the village. I just really loved that era. Yeah, yeah. A lot of that I'm sure you knew, but did you research anything that you didn't know? What's your research process like? No. No? Yeah. No. Again, it's all on the page. Yeah, yeah. Well, you mentioned Big River. I want to just backtrack a little bit to a really great 1995 production for Showtime of A Streetcar Named Desire that you did with Jessica Lange. You play Mitch. Alec Baldwin is Stanley. And you had worked with Jessica briefly, obviously, in Sweet Dreams. You guys were working together in Streetcar. And one of the things that you bring to Mitch that Karl Malden didn't in the film and obviously is there, but in your performance is particularly there, is sort of the lurking threat that Mitch has, especially after the date scene or the pre-date scene. Talk about how you approach such a seminal piece of theater, John, that, while done for Showtime, is just so extraordinary. Well, I've been hanging around New Orleans for a while, so I wanted to use a local accent, which can be indecipherable. So I had to be very careful with it. And I'm going to rat myself out on this. But Karl Malden came to the set one day in his 90s, and he towered over me. At least that's how it felt. And he asked me one question that broke my heart. He said, did Mitch love his mom? I said, well, she's doing all this stuff for you. No, he hated her. He hated her. And I went, of course he did. Of course he did. And I did not see that coming. And it just kicked my legs out from me. I just, you can't reshoot everything, man. It's too late now. But it was great to meet Karl Malden. Once that happened, did you kind of consider aspects of that? Because obviously, actors are always working on backstories and what got their character to the moment we see them. But did that change kind of that perspective for you a little bit, John, in kind of considering why some of your characters were doing the things that they did? What did? I'm sorry. That conversation with Malden. Oh, yeah, because get off your ass and do more research. And I was shooting Roseanne at the same time. I can give that excuse. But I should have seen it, and I didn't. And I can only account for laziness. And it was a wonderful production. Yeah, I think I worked with Jessica and something else before that, but I don't remember. But we knew each other. Yeah, in Sweet Dreams you guys were. Yeah. Oh, I know what it was. Everybody's All American. Oh, right. Yeah. In Baton Rouge. That's right. Taylor Hackford. That's right. Well, you mentioned Big River. I want to ask about two other great shows you were a part of. First, Waiting for Godot in 2009 with Nathan Lane, yes, and Bill Irwin and John Glover. You play Pozzo. How was it getting back on the stage at that point, and what had you learned in the intervening years that you were maybe able to bring to that performance? Stillness. Yeah. Even though the guy's a loud mouth and a gas bag, there's just. Well, if you're watching Nathan and Bill Irwin, that's enough motivation to give you stillness and just pay attention to them because they're living, breathing theater gods. I go back with Nathan to Equity Library Theater in 1978. Wow. Yeah, he just got his card. But yeah, good times. Yeah, yeah. And then. A horrible production, but good times. No. It was a disco version of A Midsummer Night's Dream. And I was Oberon because I was still built like Oberon back then. Well, later in 2016, you did The Front Page, a really terrific production of that. You played the sheriff, Sheriff Hartman, in the Hecton MacArthur classic. In this and Godot, you kind of found this great portal of these classics from other eras. What did you find the most challenging about both of them? Learning lines for Godot. And I'm ashamed to say I am overly hung up on learning lines to the point where it makes it, it creates tension when I'm working. And I got to get rid of that. I don't know if I'm trying to sabotage myself or what the deal is, but I'm too hung up on it. But I'm a firm believer and I got, I have to have my lines learned in order to swing. Yeah, yeah. I bet our actors would be curious. Do you have any tricks or anything that you sort of, anything that works best for you? Do you kind of run them through? Just wrote. Yeah. That's the way I've been doing it since college. And that's, that's the only way I know. Anything else would scare me. It's like me reading an acting book now. It throws me off for about a half a year. Well, wait a minute, man. He says to do this. I'm not, I don't get it. Yeah, it's idiot. Instead of it on the page, you should have a teacher with you. I think I need an acting coach at this point. I do. Just because I'm, I don't trust myself enough lately. Yeah. I don't know. It's 50 years of doing stuff. I'd like to say it's a snap, but I'm too hard on myself. And I think that's ego, a lot of that. Yeah. I don't want to admit it, but there you have it, folks. Well, 2012 was this major year for you. In October of that year was the major debut of both Flight, Robert Zemeckis' great drama starring Denzel Washington as a pilot with a drinking problem. Yes. He heroically lands his plane while he's intoxicated. And Argo, Ben Affleck's terrific film that went on, yes, to win the Best Picture Oscar for that year. Let's talk about Flight first. You play Harling, who's a friend of Denzel's character. Harling is not a good influence on his friends, but he's nonetheless a good friend. So there's an interesting sort of line there, because he kind of can lead his friends into darker places without necessarily thinking about the consequences. He's a complex guy, right? How did you sort of see him? I don't think he's a complex guy. I think he's a capitalist with a friendly capitalist. But he's a dealer. He uses himself not to the extent that I don't think he's an addict, but he feeds on people that are. And unfortunately, you know, I ran that circle for a while. So I knew him. And your best friend is your dealer. Yeah. Yeah. Sadly. Yeah. But, yeah, I knew the guy. And then I let the hair play him. Really, really long. They wove hair into my hair. So I couldn't wash it for four months. No, I could, but it was so hard. And, you know, you see it going down your drain every day. Yeah, I wouldn't do that again. I'd ask for a wig. You said stylistically he was sort of a guy who stopped in 1972. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. And then Argo hinges on your phenomenal performance and repartee with Alan Arkin. You play John Chambers, who is the Oscar-winning makeup artist, became famous for doing the makeup and masks on Planet of the Apes and its subsequent films. And he's asked by Affleck's CIA operative to help create a fake film to rescue Americans in Iran after the embassy is taken in 1979. Arkin plays a producer. You somehow really got Chambers as a guy. You understood him, right, even like down to his physicality. I had friends of his ask me how I knew about the limp that he had. I didn't. Just weird stuff like that. I got to go into his makeup trailer, look at all the plaster faces on the wall and all of his tools, and he would help the CIA to exfiltrate people who were in trouble spots. And, yeah, he was a pretty amazing guy. He was a patriot. And Alan was love at first sight. Yeah, I can't say enough about him. He was so free. You know, he came from an improv background. But he was always right there and funnier than hell. We played Scrabble all the time on our iPads. He beat me more than I beat him, but I just loved that guy. You guys, both of you are sort of playing sort of classic Hollywood archetypes, sort of parodies of what is obviously all too true in Hollywood. There's that great moment when Affleck is talking to you, and Chambers says, you know, you want to pretend to make a movie? You want to not do anything? You're going to fit right in. And there's this sort of sense of poking fun at the industry, which is always sort of great, right? Yeah, well, you know, the saying, nobody really knows what they're doing. Yeah, that's right. And then in 2015, Trumbo brings you back to the movies, obviously. You return to the movie milieu. You play producer Frank King, who's a real-life producer of B-movies, who helped in the 1950s the great blacklisted writer Dalton Trumbo by producing some of Trumbo's scripts, including his Oscar-winning The Brave One. The message of the film is as important now as ever. I see it as a way that helping hands can kind of come from unlikely places in a lot of ways, because King was not necessarily at Trumbo's level, but he helped him get his work going, right? And the message of that movie is so important. Well, it was naked need. And Frank King was maybe a little shady, violent, but he knew a good thing when he had it, and he could get it cheap. And that's the first time I got to work with Brian, who I was with the Argo press tour on, which was wonderful, because he is so loquacious. He loves to talk. He loves to entertain. And I don't. So I just sat back and let Brian do the deal. We shot a movie last year for my son-in-law, Ed Benda, and his partner, Stephen Halsett, which will be out next year. And that's lovely. And Judy Greer's in it. It's called Chili Finger. And I think it's going to get a nice audience. But I just love Brian. God damn. He's an actor's actor. Yeah, yeah. And that is a great film and an important film. Just a callback, because about 20 years before that in the 1990s, you're great as a producer, a fictional one, this one based on William Castle in a movie that I really love. It's called Matinee, Joe Dante's Matinee. He's a producer of monster movies in the early 1960s. And it's a really nice film. There's this great scene of Woolsey, your character, talking about the magic of movies as he walks with a young monster movie fan into the theater and kind of the possibilities that are there on that big screen as you walk in. What were some moments like that for you, John, of falling in love with the movies? That was it, falling in love with the movies. I remember William Castle from when I was a kid. Yeah. House on Haunted Hill, 13 Ghosts, all the gimmick stuff. Yeah, yeah. And I learned more about him. Oh, yeah, Roger Corman approached me at Big Shot SAG Function and said, you played a buddy of mine. And we got to talking a little bit about making films on a shoestring. Yeah. And it's just fascinating. You have to have the passion. You've got to get it done. Yeah. And that's the kind of a guy he was. He just loved show business. He was Colonel Tom Parker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So people know because maybe they don't know William Castle. William Castle used to do things like he used to have things in the chairs for a movie called The Tingler. And as The Tingler would attack, the chair would sort of vibrate and things like that. He'd post nurses in the lobby just in case anybody had a heart attack watching his film. That's right. Yeah, yeah. You'd have fake ghosts for 13 ghosts like kind of floating around. Yeah, they're coming out of the screen. Yeah. Now I guess we call it 4D. I guess you kind of – the seats still shake, I guess. I wish I could remember what he called it. Yeah, yeah, I forget too, like the shaker or something. Yeah, something like that. And then right around the time speaking of shakers, you also do – you kind of give a very scary turn as a loan shark named Frank in The Gambler, the remake of The Gambler, which is your performance in there is really terrific. Mark Wahlberg is a literature professor who's got a gambling problem, and your character, Frank, will loan him money, but there's lots of strings attached. That was really this sort of terrific, really serious kind of heavy role, but it was like not – it was delivered like he delivered those lines with such honey. You delivered those lines with such – even though they were threatening. There's a great kind of tightrope walk you have to walk on a character like that, John, right? You don't want to make him so malevolent and so nasty that you wonder why this guy would go to him. You also want to make him sort of appealing and sort of fatherly because he gives him some important advice. He likes the kid. He doesn't want to see him go down the road of keeping gambling, but he's in business. He's trying to give this kid some advice. He keeps screwing up. I think he'd like to see him get out, but the bottom line is pay me. Pay me. That's it. He's got some advice about when to say F-you and when not to. Yeah, you buy yourself a shitbox with a 30-year roof, a Toyota Corolla, serviceable, and work that way. You don't splash it around. It's sort of rough poetry, but it's a beautiful, beautiful performance and a really kind of harrowing one. Really nice screenplay. Yeah, terrific screenplay. Let's go back to some television stuff because obviously Treme comes around around 2009 and 2011 maybe, and that is very important to you because it is about New Orleans post-Katrina. Let's talk about how important that show and your character, Creighton Burnett, were to you. Katrina came along in 2005 and just changed the world down there. It was a disaster that was waiting to happen. The Army Corps of Engineers was lax. The city was lax in preparation, and it was so tragic that so many poor people lost their homes, got shifted around in 100-plus degree weather. It was horrible, horrible times. It brought out the best in people and the worst. Slowly but surely we were getting our city back, and then Treme came along, and I said, well, this is what I want to say. This guy thinks like I do. I share his values about the city, the pure love that he has for it, and the rage of what happened to it, so much so that he takes care of things in a bad way. Yeah, it's a terrific show and had so much to say at a certain point. It was New Orleans, and I got to meet so many great musicians that I hadn't met before because I've met a lot of musicians down there, and that was wonderful. Yeah, yeah. Then the earlier president that we alluded to was on the West Wing. You had this four- or five-episode arc as Glenn Alan Walken, who is the Speaker of the House who becomes president briefly when Jed Bartlett invokes the 25th Amendment to step away for himself after his daughter is kidnapped. Let's kind of talk about working on the West Wing because that is such a phenomenal show that you fit into so perfectly, and the tension and character work on there was really phenomenal, and your character was so memorable. It was great because of the dialogue. I can't remember if Aaron Sorkin wrote that or not, but I had a lovely speech, which was delivered at four in the morning. Everybody off camera was either sleeping or... laughter But we got it done, and got it done well. One of my favorite directors worked on that, Tom Ashlami, who also did a show I did for TNT or Ted Turner somewhere called Kingfish about Huey Long. He directed that. That's great, too. And Tom would pull some Kazan stuff on me, like little surprises that I hated, but he got great reactions out of me. I've got to admit it. And he's very tolerant of me because I was boozing it up pretty good at the time. Not on set, but not yet. But that particular arc, and it also gives you an outlook into the characters we know from that show through kind of another point of view because obviously he's a Republican and he is not necessarily a villain, but he has a very different way of going about the presidency. He's a constitutionalist. That's right. He wants things strictly legal and fair and unlike many Republicans today. In 2011, you did Damages. You played Howard Erickson, the owner of a security operation, kind of going an opponent of Patty and Ellen, played by Glenn Close and Rose Byrne. Another terrific arc. What was it like working with them? I love Rose. I didn't work with Glenn much, but Rose was – I was with her a lot, and I used to – we had a scene one day and I go, hey, say the dingo ate my baby. I'm trying to get away from that. Stop it. Dingo ate my baby. There were a lot of good actors in it, and it was – we got to do it here. Yeah, yeah. And then The Righteous Gemstones, which is terrific and a lot of fun. Yes. Eli Gemstone. I want to ask specifically about in that show, playing the two different eras of Eli. In the flashbacks, we see him with his wife, and he's much more open. There's sort of a sense of, I'll say, wonder maybe about him. And then the present day Eli is he's much more ruthless, and he's got sort of an agenda. What's it like sort of playing the two different parts of a character, kind of mapping those out so that they match but they're different? When his wife was alive, he was happy. When she died, he was not. And he's got a nest of serpents that he's raised not well. He and Mom did the best they could, but they throw money at their problems. But I got to watch Walt and Goggins, and what a terrific cast on this show. No, it was just fun. It was fun to show up every day. And Danny, I don't know how he did it. He was writing, producing, directing, and just to watch him and work with him. He's such a gas and such a great man. They got this place in Charleston, South Carolina. They rented out an old Sears and put the construction, wardrobe, everything under one roof with the sets. It was a brilliant idea, and it worked. And, yeah, E.D. Patterson was wonderful. Everybody, everybody was wonderful, and we'd make each other laugh. I wish I could have kept up with him as far as improvisation goes, but I don't trust myself with it. Yeah, when I improvise, I tend to make huge, long speeches and ramble on, go nowhere. That's okay, too, if you ask me. Listen to John Goodman improvise a nice, long speech. That's fine. But it's also another bigger-than-life character, obviously. The world of televangelism sort of leans to that, and that must have been fun to kind of go into. I loved it. It's so big and theatrical. Those guys are such great cons. I appreciate a great con, unless you take it too far, which is what we got today. But, yeah, just the theatricality of going out there and using your voice to bring in the dough. It's a particularly American kind of Elmer Gantry kind of thing, right, of finding the people who come under that big tent and kind of fall prey to your voice. I used to get dragged to tent revivals when I was a kid in St. Louis. Yeah, my grandma was a—well, we were Southern Baptists, but she took it too seriously. Did you learn anything as you were growing up about whether family, friends? I've kind of read that sometimes you kind of will take a character that you knew in high school or something and kind of turn aspects of them into one of your characters, right? Yeah, I did arachnophobia, and I didn't have a clue. I wanted this guy to have a good hook, something that was simple to get in and out of. I couldn't come up with it until I thought of my high school biology teacher and his speech pattern and the way he knew everything. And then I got to improvise a little bit on that film. Yeah, it was a ball, and I love Jeff Daniels. Yeah, that's terrific. That was a lot of fun from 1990, yeah. I bet actors here would also be curious, I am, about do you consider yourself an observer? Do you kind of, as people are moving through your life, do you observe them, the things they do, their attitudes, their mannerisms, and kind of file them away for later years? I always have been. Yeah? Yeah, when I was a kid, I used to get out of beatings by doing imitations of teachers and celebrities, whatever. And then the hard guys would see it, and they'd leave the kid alone. Oh, yeah. But just, yeah, I was kind of a magnet for gestures and vocal inflections, anything that was a little odd. Yeah, yeah. And then you are also beloved by a constantly renewing group of young fans, thanks to your voiceover work in some great animated films, The Emperor's New Groove, of course, Princess and the Frog, and, of course, Sully in the genius Pixar film Monsters, Inc. and Monsters University, the sequel. Sully is a really special character. That's what I'm mainly known for now. Is it really? Yeah, yeah. I think so, yeah. That's not a bad thing. Moms will go, oh, there's Sully. It's not. Right. It's not Blue and Furry. What? Yeah. Sully, say hi to my kid. Was there an aspect to being a dad that you brought to that? Was there something special that you brought to that? That's why I started doing animated films. Yeah. Yeah, Steven Spielberg directed the first one I did. It was called We're Back. I was a dinosaur, but Steven stayed in the room the whole time and directed the dialogue, which was very unusual. But Monsters, Inc. really took off when they put Billy and I in the same room because I just followed him. I mean, he's a comet. And I just wanted to keep up with him and throw in a little thing or two now and then. But that's when the energy of the characters really exploded because we were recording without each other. I think Billy came up with that idea, and it really clicked. Yeah. And you've said you had to do Monsters, Inc. almost essentially twice because you did it once, and then obviously the animation will change or whatever. So your vocal performance on there, you had to probably give them innumerable takes on one line. That's what they want. Yeah. You got to figure you're going to do a take ten times just so they can just pick the best one. Right. Yeah. What was the other one? The Emperor's New Groove. I did two or three or four scripts of that. It took a long time. Wow. But they finally got it. Apparently it's very popular. Yeah. And rewarding. And as I say, Monsters, Inc. now 25 years later is one of the great Pixar films, one of the great animated films. John Lasseter. John Lasseter. And generations upon generation of young kids discovered anew. It's great. I'm going to take some audience questions here for a second, but before I go into them, I'm going to ask, in terms of the industry, John, what has changed in the industry from your observation from the time that you started? You can kill a movie the week before anybody sees it. Everything is too critical now. I'm not in criticism, but the way you release, it's got to be a hit on the first weekend or it's considered a dud. Yeah. I've never, I think Argo may be the only hit film I had. The Artist, maybe. But, yeah, none of my films open well. Yeah. Don't hire me. Well, I mean, George Clooney has the same kind of problem. I mean, it's obviously, you know, he's one of our greatest actors, but, you know, unless it's an Ocean's Eleven film or something, oftentimes those films don't make money. George loves movies and he loves stories and he's such a great storyteller himself. And I think he's a great director. I had fun with him. Yeah. Yeah. Monuments Men. Monuments Men. Yeah. We were over in Germany for six months. Yeah. In England. Yeah. Was that fun kind of being able to do kind of a Kelly's Hero type of thing? Yeah. It's one of those movies that was like the Blues Brothers 2000 I probably shouldn't have done. But I had more fun doing it, working with these great musicians. You know, Wilson Pickett, Eddie Knock on Wood Floyd, Sam Moore from Sam and Dave, all these great cats. And it didn't do well. George's movie, I had one of the best times I've ever had on a film. Nothing. Yeah. Well, things should not be all about. It should never be fun. But things should never be about just the finances. And I feel like you mentioned that about Big Lebowski. You know, it's the things that don't make money at the box office. Who cares? Because these are the things that have a life afterwards. Yeah. It was fun on Raising Arizona because there was no budget. And I'd watch these guys invent these brilliant shots. Well, we need this. How are we going to get it? You know, get a baby carriage or do something backwards, film it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that was Barry Sonnenfeld as well, right? Yeah. Barry. Barry was DP. Yeah. Yeah. Funny guy. Yeah. Well, let's take some questions here. This is from Nico. After almost 50 years of acting, what's something about acting you believed when you were young that now you think is completely wrong? It's a good question. I didn't learn anything. No, it's just I always went in at too hard. And I still find myself doing that. I've got to pull back. And that's a comfort. But, yeah, you don't have to hammer everything out. It makes it easier to work when you're not going stupid, stupid, stupid. Yeah. Yeah. Another question from Stacey says, when you're playing a villain, do you find it more effective to think of yourself, to make yourself think of the character as a good person, or is it better to just allow yourself to hate the character? I don't like hating characters, but I have. Or I didn't understand them. But usually, unless he's stupid, a guy knows he's being bad. Yeah. It depends on what reason you're doing it for. Yeah. That's all. It's just, yeah, you're more selfish with your intentions. Right. That's what it is. Yeah. There's kind of the thing of like Richard III thinks he's doing things the right way because that's how he's thinking of it is. Yeah. His perception is his perception. And he's very funny. That's right. Who were some of the characters that you didn't like that you mentioned that you thought? I'd rather not say. Question from Dexter, which is in Raising Arizona, which we were just talking about. How long did you prepare for the role? I combed my hair and I grew prison sideburns. That was it. And, you know, I was all on the page and working with Bill Forsythe. And those guys, yeah, it wasn't a lot of preparation. It was all right there. A lot of pomade in the hair. Yeah. I couldn't get it out. I couldn't get it out with Dawn dishwashing liquid. And I'd go out at night, you know, hit bars and I still had that goddamn haircut. We should know that. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying this, that me and my friends quote it all the time. So Raising Arizona lives in our conversations and our text chats all the time. Great. Question from Justin, which is what are some of your favorite movies to film? What have been some of your favorite movies to film? What made them so? People we work with, I'll say generally, like I said, I had fun with Blues Brothers 2000. It didn't turn out very well. Yeah, George's movie, Monuments Men. It's just the guys you're with or the women you're with, if you hit it off with them, that's what makes it memorable is the people you're working with. Question from Dan, which is what is your most obscure role that you get recognized for? Oh, God. I'm sorry. I just can't think of one off hand. I know it. I know it's in there, but I'm not relaxed enough to bring it up in my memory. Yeah, that's OK. I also think that there's a level to that, that while the obscure roles may not get as recognized as they should be. Chud. I was about to say something about Chud. Chud. Jay Thomas and I were cops in a diner and we got eight or whatever Chud does. We should let people know Chud stands for cannibalistic humanoid underground dwellers. So you'll learn that. You know they're there, folks. That's right. Last question from Joshua, which is when you move from one project to the next, do you take directions and lessons that you've internalized with you or do you find it more effective to start fresh? No, I take everything with me and see if I can use it. And most of the time I can. If it's nonsense, just let it go. Do you find that sometimes one lesson that you've learned on one film, you may need to do the complete opposite for another character or another film? Sure. Yeah. They're all different, but you pick up whatever tricks. You're around for 50 years, you're bound to be good at something. Good at quite a few things, my friend. I'll let you know that. We're going to wrap up with a couple of things that we call habits, turning points, and realizations. What decisions have you made, John, that have maybe contributed to success in your career? It could be a personal decision, a professional decision. Read. Read? Read widely and deeply and you will use most of the time whatever is in there. Because something will spark your imagination and give you enough pleasure when it's on the page. To subconsciously hold on to it. And you can use a lot of things that way. When I started acting, I was ignorant. I was probably headed for Vietnam. And I was just loitering at a college. And when I learned that, when I started taking an interest in acting, it became a passion so much so that, well, I'm going to need English. I'm going to need music. I'm going to need dance. I'm going to need this, that, that. Start paying attention and start learning, which I did at a terrific rate. Yeah, that's great advice. What are some of the pitfalls, John, that you wish you had seen coming? Fame? I wish I would have taken to it better. I didn't. I was frightened. Pitfalls? Yeah, I'm my own worst enemy. By far. Yeah. And it sounds like, obviously, moving to New York rather than L.A., you obviously made that decision that was the right one. My acting teacher got into Yale on the G.I. Bill after World War II. He studied with Bobby Lewis at Yale. So I came up with the whole group theater ethos. Ethos? And I came up here to go to HB Studios. Yeah, there was a couple of places I wish I would have tried to, but I didn't have enough dough to not work and just stay and study. God forbid I get a job. Were there moments where you felt that maybe things clicked into place and you had to establish an approach and a style to performance? Was there a moment when you realized something's clicking? In a good way. Yeah, the only thing I could think of was commercials. And in theater, I was trying to do a one-off Broadway play with J.T. Walsh, Jimmy Rebhorn, directed by Dan Florek. And I wanted to start seeing how big I could get and still be truthful. Not real, but truthful. And yeah, that idea followed me for a long time, just to see how far I could stretch things. But still be honest, you guys. Something Laurie Metcalfe does all the time. All the damn time. And then to wrap up, we'll ask, what are some good habits that you would recommend for actors? Could be anything. You mentioned Reed earlier, obviously that was one of them. But what are some other good habits that you'd recommend? Learn to relax, take care of your body. If you're an addict like I am, please seek treatment early. You'll learn a lot about yourself. But yeah, you've got to take care of your instrument. I know that sounds corny, but it's true. Take care of yourself. Dig as much music as you can. And that ain't hard. Well, John, thank you so much for that. Thank you so much for joining us. Ladies and gentlemen, John Goodman. Thanks for coming. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming. Thank you.