Samantha Sloyan on ‘Carrie,’ Mike Flanagan, Playing Unlikable Characters

very excited to talk to you today. I did watch all eight episodes of Carrie yesterday. - Good to see all of them. - It's a lot of carry in one day. [laughter] - I did. - It's a lot of carry in one day, but I really enjoyed my time. [music] I'm so curious because, you know, I having watched all eight episodes and the fact that I'm always talking or always thinking about B Keen, uh, what it is like to sort of have become Mike Flanigan's go-to for religious fanaticism is go-to for this brand of person. - For Yeah. For for a bold woman. Yes, for sure. Um, I uh - I mean I find I I find myself incredibly lucky that the that type of character to play is something that I hadn't been given the opportunity to do um in film or television before Mike came along. and to be able to um I don't know just take what one might call a a big swing at or big personality but also um to to be able to um create a kind of outside in this unlikable territory um is really uh is really wonderful because you um sometimes I find the likability can clog things up uh with me about, you know, how does something come off? And then to just really be free and open knowing that the choices that you're making and the way that you're treating and interacting with the other characters is not going to fly [laughter] with with the the viewer is in terms of like they're not going to they're not going to like me. And so um so then what do I do with that freedom? If that makes sense. - That that's really interesting. Yeah, absolutely. It's really interesting to me because I think, you know, even as someone who does what I do, I feel like it's just always in the back of your head of like, you know, I really hope people like me. I think it's a very natural human reaction. So, I am I'm curious if you could expand on that a little bit about like, you know, how you - found that freedom in, you know, knowing that people aren't maybe people are going to like this character and what that has did to your ability to then, you know, dive a bit deeper than you had. Well, it's in because to to take off the kind of um it's not just that you want to be liked. It's it's that as a person in the world, you at least one would hope um and then we kind of address that in this series of like you want to be kind. You don't want to to hurt people. You don't um you know when we do that and it wasn't our intention like how painful that can be. So, it's I think what I like about it is um that her choices are so and along with Bev's they're so um they don't go through the filter of of what somebody else might think. They're so personal to her and nothing gets in that way. So, it's kind of this this single-mindedness. Um, and how would you achieve a goal if you weren't concerned in like not burning bridges as you went or or you didn't have that that feeling of um of looking at somebody's face and knowing that you've you've harmed them like if that's not if that's not a barrier to you. Um it's it's like instead of it being a negative choices and taking away um you know the ability to empathize I think it's more of like adding uh adding like well what then if that's not an option then what happens? What I found really interesting about this is that compared to you know the the various other carries and various other adaptations is you know despite it all there there's there's a lot of recognizable love that she has for Carrie that is that is a very you know she felt like the most um - recognizably human version of this character like someone that exists you know - as a person in society. I'm curious about, you know, as somebody who has talked endlessly about, you know, collaboration, how much that came from, you know, the writing, how much it came from you, how much that was layered in as a as a team. - I think that that started with Mike. I think that that that point of view is part of why he wanted why he thought this Carrie, this Carrie now, why Carrie, you know, that that it it was coming through um, you know, a different point of view. you know, we have eight episodes, so it's you have to, I think, really fill these characters with um humanity. If you know, like like you said, it's a lot of Carrie. If you're going to watch eight episodes in one day, something's bringing you along. And it has to be that you care about the people that have been created and that you're seeing things from different points of view that may not have been available or um you know just weren't part of the consideration of the the other iterations just because they weren't. And I think um that the collaboration as soon as Mike said this cuz when he brought it up to me, you know, I I was thinking Bev Keen and it's like, well, what are we going to do that's different than what we did then? And he was like, you know, no worries. This is not Beverly. This is a whole different woman. And I think that um I found so much of her her um her energy was because she loved Carrie so much. and because she was so terrified for her daughter and then that just sent her into uh to like her aggression and to her her kind of um she's going to go to war with everybody uh to protect her kid. - I do want to ask some some sort of craft Florida questions before we get into Carrie specifically. It's always been true. I think it was it's it's been true in the in the sort of Mike Flanigan world that that they come with they come with monologues. It's always been true. You the wonderful monologue all the way back even in Hill House the you're at eater monologue which which we love and then you know that continues through Midnight Mass. - I I do want to ask you know from just a pure you you come from the theater you know what is your monologue prep? What is your monologue preparation? What is your monologue mindset? Um, well, when I first get a script, I have like a an initial, like if it's something that's I'm so excited to do and matches so well with where my sensibility is with Beverly, the first time I read it, I'm like, I know exactly how this goes. And then as I work, I lose I lose that. And by the end, you know, you're like, I have no idea what I'm doing. [laughter] I don't think any of this works. Um, but I need that journey. I'm one of those people who needs a lot of work on something. I need the words to be word perfect. I need to not be considering them. So really, until the words are in my body, I feel like ideas don't even really show up for me. So the first thing is I just drill it. I I usually type it out. I still remember best from a piece of paper in my hand. Um, then I also use some Line Learner apps and like go on long walks and talk to myself. Um, and uh, just so you don't forget that somebody else is in the scene with you. So, you do have to prepare for their cues and and all of that. And then once I feel um, you know, I stand up in my room or my hotel room and I, you know, act for nobody. Um, and then once that's done and I feel like I it's I can be saying it and thinking of something else, that's really where uh impulses start to arrive. And then um that might be completely, you know, a 90° turn from what I thought would be happening in that moment. You know, that's when like a smile arrives when you're saying something terrible or tears come when you're when you're unexpected or things just kind of start showing up. And then then you arrive on set and then I feel like then you're just ready for anything. Whatever Mike wants to do, whatever the other characters do, cuz all of a sudden you're like, "Oh, you're you're doing that." Well, then that completely affects me in a way that I couldn't have anticipated. And I think you're I'm open to that only if I am very secure. - I I was watching you another conversation you did. You said something about acting that I really loved. You said, you know, on a great day, you're really just talking and listening. I feel like that really kind of just sums it up. You know, that that's - at the end of the day what it is. I'm curious if if it took a while for you to learn that if you know whether that was something like a a lesson that you're like, "Oh, I I you know, because you mentioned that a lot of people they get in their head about what it's going to look like and they memorize it and they're like, but then it changes on the day." So, I'm curious whether there was sort of an aha moment where you're like, "Oh, that's that is where I do my best work." - Um, well, I started acting after college, so I didn't study like in um in that sense. So afterwards I went right into acting class and I started doing theater in LA and scene work and I you know I think it was and that's how I got my commercial agent and that's how I got my theatrical agent was they came to shows um and I didn't get my first TV job. So I started in like 2001 and I didn't get my first TV job till I think like 2009. So, um you're really um I think all that class and watching people and learning from critiques that you're not even in and um and I I think part of study is I think a lot of theater people are really big on listen to what's happening right in front of you. And so that happened and then in um when I started doing TV it was a different thing because suddenly I felt you know I guess I had bought into this concept of like oh well when you do camera work that's something else entirely and it's you you know if you've only done theater you're screwed because you won't know how that works. And um and so I was very safe and small and careful and um it's hard, you know, cuz we're expected to learn how to do something that when you're starting out, you're only allowed to do like on a, you know, a good year, like 10 days that year, you know, you were allowed to be on set and and do something. And um I feel like when I did Grey's Anatomy, it was the first time that I had an extended period of work and I could try something and then like watch it when it came out and be like, "Oh, okay." Um I felt like this was happening. I thought I was presenting this and it didn't read at all. And I guess it's a long- winded way of saying I found that I was really it was all the same work [laughter] and it was um just uh and when I think I really realized that that I was trying to then bring the theater experience into my experience in front of the camera and that's when I remember to listen and to um that it's not just when the camera's on you, you're there for your scene partner in exactly the same way that you're there for them on stage. like you need to be, at least in my opinion, I feel like you need to be giving them everything you got whenever you can. And um and I think that that was my aha moment where I was like, "Oh, this is the same thing I've been doing this whole time. So, just do the things that I had learned how to do." - I love that. That's a I love that. It's I I I kind of want to get into the, you know, from theory to practice and ask you about a few specifics from Carrie. And I do want to note that, you know, full on this is a spoiler warning, but I do just want to sort of ask you about a few a few moments. There's there's this really remarkable moment post prom where of course Carrie comes home and, you know, Margaret is sort of making the decision to to kill her with the the the knitting needles. And it's it's sort of this you're work you see her working up, - you know, going through the the contradictions in her head about, you know, where where faith is tied in religion, what will you do to protect your daughter and all that stuff. So with something like that, you know, of course the camera catches a lot. Uh so what do you could do about on the day when when your character is sort of wordlessly working through something like that? - Um that I mean that is that can be a lot of things. Um because when you are expected to kind of hit a high emotional mark on a day um there's so many things at play that you can't really control. Um you know how fast are they moving that day? How is the day going? How is everybody feeling? Where are you? Are you do you feel like you have access to like that kind of thing? Um, I feel like with this, what lined up so well is, uh, is I was lucky enough to be working with somebody I've worked with many, many times before. Um, that our crew was so incredible and so invested in the piece as much as we were. So just the way that people move around is so respectful as far as like keeping noise levels down and um keeping a a mood of what you're working with and and keeping on task in a way. And then I had Summer, you know, which like talk about listening, like she does so much of the lifting for me in the sense that um she's created such a completely beautiful and fully realized Carrie that when you're just in the room with her, that's who you're in the room with in a lot of ways. And so, um, so with something like that, I try to keep, um, relaxed. I find that for me personally and when it comes to motion, I I have like a series of things I'll try like from the best day till like I'm all out of tricks and like what what way that is. And I feel like for me it's best to start um as open as I can be and relaxed and really have just um like relaxed in my body. like clearly I can't relax because there's a lot of things of like gee I hope I don't mess this up - kind of things that run through your head - but be um so I'll stretch stretch that try to I try to stay still because I have a tendency to dissipate a lot of my emotions through I mean I'm doing it I'm sure now like I talk with my hands like I move around a lot and so I try to steady that and um and I try to let myself be looked at I know That sounds funny, but it's it's hard to really let people just look at look at you. Um, and so all of that is is what I used. And then with that, I find then the construction of the situation and the two characters is all able to play through me. um you know and and and also the gift of having all your scripts at once which is something that is relatively new I feel like since limited series and all of that um you know at least in television and just knowing where you came from and how you got there as an actor I think is so huge sometimes we're asked to do kind of like um a lot of you know like a very complicated scene But we don't have like as a guest star sometimes you literally don't have access to that script and like what happened with the other characters or - you know um so I think for this the way that I I feel I achieved that was a combination of just yeah preparation luck and the people around me which I feel is always the formula. - I love that. I I also want to Yeah. I mean, you mentioned, you know, coming in as a guest star. I mean, I think of like you coming onto the pit, you know, something like that where you sort of have to like come into that world and and give this harrowing performance and then - you're just one piece of a much larger hole. - Yeah. And that but that was what they're doing there is so amazing and unique and fantastic. And talk about like a feel of theater. Um because one they shoot sequentially which is unreal and then they've built like a set that makes you feel as if you are in the hospital and um everybody is showing up. I mean again talk about the camera's not on you. Everybody's playing it full because you never know when you're going to be when it's going to pan past you or anything. So um and that that was just such a fully committed exciting set to be on. I would have. I mean, leaving that one was hard. I was like, well, can't we [laughter] can't you write us in until next year somehow? - One more. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] One more. - One more day. - It's not often someone just returns. Someone just comes back to a hospital. Yeah. That doesn't really make sense. Um I am I am, you know, I want to ask you about your um your character's last moments in in in Carrie because again, it's just this is a very spotlight moment. Um you know, on on you. It's you alone in a chair. you have a lot of business going on on your face. [laughter] Um I'm not sure if you actually were able to sit across from uh from Kate. I'm not sure from - from camera angles, but you know, I'm curious what that what that was like. You know, what what and where that fell in your shooting schedule and what where it arrived. - Oh, you know, as far as where it's it fell, I'm terrible. I just have such amnesia. I just go and I'm like, it's all one day. Um but that was really great for me. one because I've known Kate for a long time. Uh we actually met in acting class and uh before any of us, you know, had worked and um well that's not true. We we had done some work but um so that was just a combination of that was just fun like that that was um I think it I think she she shot a lot of her stuff in one day. So for her I think that was you know a very very busy situation. But for me to be able to sit across from her and for us to work like we were kids in class again in a certain way and try things and um uh yeah that would I mean if that could be all days I'd be thrilled - as as as luck would have it. I'm actually talking to Kate tomorrow. Uh so I'm very excited to sort of get this the dual dual-edged answer to this question. Yeah, I'm very excited. I'm very excited. I I I just like just saying that, you know, I think of the sort of - what has become this this interesting troop that seems to just be gaining people as it goes along. This this these these Flanigan troops. I I I do want to ask, you know, when you think back to like Hush, - which is, you know, a classic - horror movie that had no money, you know, it was it was filmed. It was it had a very low budget. um when you were on that project, you know, and you're talking to to people that are your friends, will become your friends, become your favorite collaborators, you know, what were you thinking about for your career, you know, what were you hoping for? And like what do you think when you sort of look back from this vantage point? - Oh, it's so funny like um in terms of like having no money and every and everything like that. I mean, that's much more, you know, I was just an actor who showed up and was like, "What are we doing?" like Mike and Kate understood much more the production of it all. But it really goes to show like how much of um you know creative problem solving and working around what you don't have available to you births such beautiful you know wonderful things that you couldn't have you wouldn't have stumbled on had you had all the resources in the world. And then also um you know how Mike works so similarly now to the way that he did then and we're all like when you're starting out and that's very much where I was when I did that. You just want to keep getting hired. Like that's where I saw my career was like gee I hope that I get to keep working. Um, and I think that the beauty of as people find each other because Mike has like it is this wonderful traveling circus that's continually collecting people. But I think when you find looked at so many people if you like a director you love and then you start watching everything they've done, you see the same people. And it it is because so much of us coming up are just uh saying yes to everything and trying to just trying to make something and trying to get it to work and trying to get people to see it. And I think when you find people who help you do that under terrible circumstances, you know, you can count on them in the best of circumstances. And so you just take their number down and make sure that you call them again the next time you need somebody. Um and and I never get I never Michael Trouo who was in Hush is one of the most he's such a wonderful man but he's also so such a great actor in the sense that he like during midnight mass you know it's freezing um we're all in you know it's the middle of the night we're in the middle of Canada my feet like have icicles on them and and Michael will just kind of look around and be like how lucky we are that we're doing this and you're like, "Yeah, yeah, you know, you can't complain." And I feel um every time I work with this group, you're just like, "Man, we're back here." And I couldn't couldn't be happier. So, I hope that continues. - I I love that. Well, I do want to ask, you know, I mean, we we we we came here to talk about Mike Flanigan directed religious tinged horror and you're not exactly taking a break from that because you are in The Exorcist, the [laughter] the new Exorcist film. - I like I I definitely I like I say hello in The Exorcist. Very small. But yeah, - I love that. I was going to I was going to say what is the what is the what can we expect from you? What have you what have you seen? What have you heard? But I know that is a long way off, but I know that people are very - that's a long way off and I haven't seen, you know, I just came in. So that was really just it was like looking like holding the tail of an elephant in the sense of like I know it has a tail and that's about it. Um but I think - there's a lot more to it. - There's a lot more to it. But um it looked I mean just sitting behind the monitor it's it's so beautiful looking. It's so cinematic. Like all his stuff is beautiful, but there's this has like a quality to it. And I think it will probably um just judging by the little bit that I know, probably be the scariest thing that he's done. So, I'm excited. - I think I think everyone is. We're very excited for that. We're very excited for everything you you have coming down the road, anything you're going to do. Uh I just want to tell you that we here are a yearly Hill House uh watch that has become a staple. So, so thank you for that. - It is, it has become such since it came out, it's just been and it kind of happened by it kind of happened by accident, you know, like every year we're like, "Oh, let's watch the first episode." And then there we are again watching the whole thing. So, it is we are we are very uh grateful [laughter] that that - I love that. I I started watching it again uh not that long ago and that first episode like I know I know exactly what happens and I still get I find that first episode really scary. So, I enjoyed myself. Yeah. - So, do we love [laughter] that? Well, S, this was so lovely. Uh, thank you so much for this. I'm sure we'll talk again down the road. [music]