David Dastmalchian

Some of your favorite actors have used Backstage to kickstart their career. Denzel Washington, Al Pacino, Viola Davis, Chris Evans, that's Captain America. And all you have to do to be just like Captain America is go to backstage.com/subscribe and enter the code envelope at checkout for a 30-day free trial. That's 30 days of access to thousands of casting notices uploaded daily. Subscribe to Backstage today and again use code envelope at checkout e n b e l o p e for free. Every single audition is just another spin of that wheel. And when I got depressed or hung up on a roll or waiting to hear if I was going to get pinned or called back, it was just a non-useful way to spend my energy. So, I liked the idea of like I'm spinning the roulette wheel today. I put everything I can into this audition. I spun it and is my number going to come up? I have no control of that. So, relationships, reputation, and roulette, baby. Spin it as many times as you can. Hello and welcome to another new episode of In the Envelope, the Actor's Podcast, where the biggest names in film, television, and theater offer acting lessons and behindthescenes insights you won't find anywhere else. I am your host, backstage senior editor Vinnie Manuso. And joining me today is one of the most versatile character actors working today, the great David Dast Mulggin. Now, many of you probably first met David in Christopher Nolan's The Dark Knight, uh, which was David's very first film role, playing the Joker's schizophrenic henchman, Thomas Schiff. Since then, he's been an absolute staple of the genre world. Acting for Denuv in Prisoners, Bladeunner 2049 and Dune, redeeming with Christopher Nolan for Oppenheimer, crushing a supporting role in both of the MCU's Ant-Man movies, playing Polka Dot Man in James Gun's Suicide Squad, and leading horror favorites like Late Night with the Devil. That is just a sample of his work. And next up, he will play the villainous M. bison in the brand new adaptation of Street Fighter. Stick around for the back half of this episode where we go very, very deep on that. Needless to say, this was just a wonderful, very, very wide-ranging chat with a guy who has seen every low and high of an acting career and come out on the other side on top. Let's just get right into it. Here is David Best Malchin. fight. - Love that. Hopefully with that makes it in. Uh, how's it going, David? How are you doing? - It's great, man. It is uh it's an interesting time in my life where I'm just constantly finding myself in between one really semi stressful but also incredibly exciting thing that's happening between both like work creative and just life stuff. And um so I just am like just trying to talk to myself in a way that isn't insane and uh breathe as much as possible and grateful to be here talking to you, man. - Well, I think that's a great place to start. I mean, a lot of the people who listen to this podcast are actors are aspiring actors, people who want to, you know, get to the the level where they have that type of stress. Yeah. I am I'm you know so sort of curious of of the ways you've learned to navigate the fact that to find success in this industry means being stressed a lot dealing you have these amazing things happening to you but wow it's really stressful - look I don't want to like make too big a deal of it but if you're listening to this and you are a a you know you're working as an actor a writer, producer, composer, what I mean mostly actors obviously work backstage but like there's all I know many directors who are very uh you know attuned to what's going on backstage as our producers and others casting people this is the most important conversation you're going to listen to in for the next 30 minutes of your life after that you'll probably hear another many more important conversation or hour of your life or however long I can just gab for. But I do want to say what you brought up is so important. when I started the journey of training to be an actor and then once I actually entered the playing field and I started putting myself I mean even when you're training even when you're in high school in college in if you're doing graduate work if you're just training at like a playhouse or at an acting school it's still the pressure is so intense because you're constantly seeking that affirmation or that recognition from the teacher, the person, you know, running the school. The school I went to, it was like you could get cut every year. So, you were worried about that. And then you get into like, okay, now I'm just going on auditions all the time and putting myself out there for, you know, everything from uh candy bar commercials to my first shot at like a few lines in a major motion picture to a potential co-star, a guest star, recurring guest star, a series regular, a pilot, a vertical, whatever the thing is you're putting yourself out there for. it it demands so much of your mental and physical space and I didn't have the tools to manage the stress starting my journey and so I nearly died because the stuff that worked for me for good strong like couple of years well actually for many years was like alcohol and just like um more easily accessible drugs like pot, etc. And I'm not getting on any bandwagon to tell people how I feel about alcohol or pot or anything else, but I do think it's worth looking at if you're listening to this and those are tools that you feel like you need to be able to decompress at the end of a long day or if they are tools that you may even feel you need to be able to like do the tape that you want to tape or the audition that you want to tape or to manage the stress or the feelings of rejection that you get when you get told no. And by the way, all of us get told no 99 out of 100 times. So you're mostly just getting told no, which feels like people saying, "I don't love your art. I don't think you're good. I don't like the way you look. I don't like the way that you did that line." And honestly, I know I can't convince you this in one podcast. But that's just not true. That's the [ __ ] your brain tells you. Trust me, from a dude who's sitting on the other side of this experience now for years and getting to produce and watch tapes, so many of them are so good and the battle is always just like, God, there's that one little element, that thing that nobody could control. So, getting back to though, the stress management of it all. If your way of decompressing and releasing the steam at the end of the day or in the middle of the day is putting something in your mouth and that doesn't just have to be drugs or alcohol. It could be negative self-t talk. the way that you feel about yourself, the kind of relationships that you are putting yourself into that seem to feed that sense of like, well, it feels good for the moment, but try and think about the journey. As actors, we're on hopefully, knock on wood, lifelong journeys. There's so many hills, there's so many valleys, there's so many incredible, magical moments when you find that amazing scene partner and you just nail a thing. There's those moments if you're really really lucky where you know you open a trade and you get an announcement that you're cast in something but regardless like getting to just put something down and manifest a character is such an incredible feeling for the longevity of it. My hope for you is that you find the tools and the ways to manage it that don't involve any form of self harm or ways that even though they feel good now, you know in your intuition, in your instinct that in 10 years, 15, 20 years, 30 years, it's not manageable and you don't like what that future looks like for you. I didn't like what that future looked like for me. I knew once I became addicted to opiates and that I felt like they were the only way I could calm down at the end of the day and the end of the night and the stress of both performing and trying to get jobs. I had this belief that it was worth it cuz it was the only thing that was going to get me through all of it. And that's a [ __ ] lie. is very very very relatable to and I mean just just personally you know in in your life as an artist you know thinking that the negative things are necessary to make the art happen or you know to make the art good you know I I I've gone through that myself is is the is the the wrong thinking of you know without this I won't be able to do it - and and and I can attest to it I put I I I'm a witness to you I swear on the lives of my children. I got clean and it took me longer than I wanted to learn how to live clean. So, I didn't get the privilege of acting or even trying to act for a number of years once I got clean cuz I kind of just had to learn how to live the life of just paying the bills, showing up, starting to honor my responsibilities as a person and and just being present. When the opportunity finally presented itself for me to act, a friend offered me a role in a play. I didn't think I would ever be able to do it without the benefit of the drugs because they were such a part of both the creative process and the relief process for me. But I did it and I knew almost instantly it I was a billion times better of an actor. I was so much better of an actor. And then even though at that point we're going all the way back into like 2007 2008 like at this point I'm a few years clean. I'm just starting to get back on stage. I even then had some coping tools and mechanisms. Now at 51 and years and years into this journey, I have so many tools that I'd love to share with you guys that go everywhere from like breath work to meditation. I'm part of a support group. No matter what your thing is that you're struggling with in life, if it's addiction, if it's relationships, if it's codependency, if it's food, if it's self-image, if it's workcoholism, there is there is a group of people somewhere either online or in whatever city you live in where you can connect and find people who aren't your family, who aren't, you know, your friends, who you can offload with and develop that kind of community. I have all of those as well as oh my god exercise, yoga, the stuff that I do like I just love to decompress and watch a good classic horror movie um reading. I've got all these tools now that even when the typhoons show up and the typhoons come both professionally, you know, you get a job pulled out from under you, it doesn't go the way you wanted, people hate your performance. I mean, I've had it all happen and or personally, you know, you get dumped, you need to dump somebody, you are under threat of eviction, you can't make your car payment, you have an unplanned u pregnancy, you are a marginalized person who is being attacked by either members of our society or our government. Like, you need a loving support system. and and I really hope and pray you do the work to find a way to talk to yourself and and and love yourself cuz that's who you're spending the most time with anyway. - There's so much you just said that I want you branch off into. So start, - you know, before I have these conversations, I always take like one last sort of cruise down the person's IMDb page just to like see if there's anything I missed. And you know, looking at yours, it's just until you see it in front of you, it's remarkable the wide r how wide ranging it is, the collaborators, the directors you've worked with. So, I'm always curious to ask an actor, you know, when was the last time you sort of took a look at your own career from like a bird's eye view level, you know, like because I it's very, as you're saying, it's very easy to be caught up in the the moment, the stress, the now, but like when was the last time you like looked back? - Probably about two weeks ago. And and here's why I I I launched this company called Good Fiend Films where the mission was to produce and create all forms of storytelling um that wrestled with issues and ideas that fascinate or terrify or I find important, but all through the lens of genre. And we're getting ready to announce a new division of the company. And so we were I was working with my publicist and we were putting together like a press release and when you do that you know you they ask you for like okay bio and yada yada yada. So, we were kind of going through stuff on there and um and I also do it not just the econ it's interesting. It it it's hard to probably I don't know maybe maybe I'm thinking for you but if you're listening or you're watching this and you're like oh yeah that's easy for him to say I get it trust me. So, I'm not here to convince you, but I do a huge part of that mental like balancing, calming pool tool that I like to dive into every day is gratitude. I don't I don't know how to swear up and down cuz I do a checklist at the end of every night before I go to sleep, which is very simple. It's just like a balance sheet of the day and I name three things that I'm grateful for. I can't think of the last time that it was. I mean, it does happen, of course, like I booked that thing or I got that opportunity. It does, but it's so much more often like I got to work with this amazing person who like I got to work with Steve Bushimi this year, one of my heroes. Like that was something I just floated on gra like that I got to share space with this actor who I've admired for so long. But also on the list is like I didn't lose my cool when my kid, you know, broke their iPad today or I So, so the the the career the roles and the the accomplishments I do like to take an inventory just to show appreciation and gratitude. But as I do go through that list, it's often the thing that perks up my heart the most is like, "Oh man, I remember doing this scene with soand so." Um, which is just such an awesome feeling. I mean, I mean, when you consider the fact that I was an opiate addict who nearly died a handful of times and was resuscitated and and saved and, you know, the kindness of strangers and the people that have helped me to get to where I am today, like mathematically, statistically, it's an improbability that I'm now a working actor who's also like a present father. And it's it's wild. - I I do want to sort of, you know, go down the list a little bit. I want to ask you some collaborators and, you know, sort of not not just it's sort of a two-part thing. You know, I want to ask you about a few directors you've worked with and and not I kind of want to learn, you know, how they work and how the way that they work sort of added to who you are as an actor, how it jailed with you or anything like what it added to who you are as an actor. And I guess the best place to start is with Christopher Nolan who you know you your feature film debut in the Dark Knight worked with him again on Oppenheimer. You know what what is it like working with him and what did working with him add to who you are as an actor? - When I had the opportunity of auditioning for um John Papsidera for The Dark Knight. It was for um one of the clown bank robbers at the beginning of the film. And at that point, all of my acting experience had been on stage, except for like one television commercial. And so I brought all of the work that I know and love about creating character and craft into trying to manifest something that I felt felt authentic to the kind of character I would want to portray as this like this conspiring criminal bank robber who's paranoid about, you know, this guy that's hired them who no one's seen. I mean, the scene was really cool. Not anything like I mean it's totally different than what I actually did when I got cast. But I prepared this thing and the first lesson came from John Papsider because he watched my audition and then he liked it and he said to me - stage favorite by the way. John Papsider. - I mean he's - a legend. A legend. and he said to me, and by the way, for those listening who think they're too cool for commercials, the reason he spotted me out of a hundred of Chicago's best character actors, and Chicago is the basic like hunting ground for character acting, like chops, that's where you go, in my opinion. I love all the cities where actors thrive, but like I'm a little partial because I'm a Chicago, you know, it's where I trained. Like there's hundred, not exaggerating, a hundred cool looking, talented people in that room. The reason I popped and his attention drew to me first was cuz I was in a silly cell phone commercial at the time that was just running and he remembered it. He was like, "Oh man, you're in that funny commercial." His assistant actually pointed it out. So then I do my scene and he really was impressed. I had done the work. I had really prepared. I came with a strong choice. I took a giant swing and he said, "All the work you're doing is so great. I want you to go home tonight, figure out how to put all of it in your eyes cuz I want you to come back tomorrow and and the director is going to want to watch this." But you've got to figure out how to put all this work you're doing just in your eyes. Cuz I was doing so much with my face, my arms, my body. And if you're listening to this and you've spent time on stage, you understand the desire to make sure you're communicating not only every syllable vocally, but every gesture physically so that the back row of the house gets it. And at that time, I had just, you know, threaded the needle through a really difficult but incredible production of the glass managerie. And I was in this place of really wanting to make sure everybody was was there with me. So, I went home. I did what I understood to mean put it in my eyes, which required a lot of physical discipline because I'm often tempted to make big expressions with my face and big gestures with my body. And I practiced stillness and I came to set and and I was so nervous. I was literally shaking. And I decided to use that fear to my benefit, to the character's benefit, cuz I really didn't know what I was doing until the first day of filming. They were very secretive about stuff and and the director, he um he had a calm and a confidence about him and this like way of just being present on set that I learned quickly to trust that it's it's really hard. I get it. Like when you're working and you you want to say you want that reassurance so bad, like are you sure you got the right guy? Are you sure I'm the uh I'm thinking about that I I'm really this the way he just had presence like he made the choices that he knew he wanted to make and I was there because he chose me to be there and even though my internal voice was telling me there's no way this is possible like I can't believe this is happening I had to trust that and just put myself in his hands and we're doing the first thing we really shot was me handcuffed in a in a gurnie in the back of an ambulance after having been shot and um and he was very near the the shooting area. So, he was giving me some really great side coaching, just kind of encouraging and I learned I learned to trust and my ability to um listen just it it takes a lot of work cuz the voice in my head is so loud. But I'm not there to honor or to manifest the voice in my head. I'm also I know this isn't really great to hear, but I'm not there to honor the emotional experience that I'm hoping to have. When I'm playing a character who is scared, if I don't feel scared, that's okay. Does the audience think I'm scared? That's what matters. When I am playing a character who's supposed to be in love, but I don't feel in love that day, does that matter? Of course not. When I'm playing a guy who's this paranoid schizophrenic who's trying to kill somebody because he's afraid of what will happen to him if he doesn't, does it matter that I don't feel like a paranoid schizophrenic who's afraid if he doesn't kill somebody that I'm going to get in trouble? Of course not. What was I thinking about? Holy [ __ ] this is Christopher Nolan. Holy [ __ ] I'm surrounded by a thousand extras. Oh my god, is that an IMAX camera? What does What do they mean when they say find your light? What is um I didn't know any terms yet. So that's what I learned. That's what I learned. - I mean, it's the the myth versus reality thing about acting, you know, of people to understand how much of a craft it is. And sometimes that means that what is happening in here is not 100% the reality of a scene. It is it is occasionally like I need to find my mark. I need to what when is launch stuff like that. Like it's it's it's not becoming the character the point where you lose yourself. - Yeah. You know, it's interesting to me that you have basically you worked with the 1A, the 1B of directors right now, which is Christopher Nolan and Denise Velnu, who have you worked with three times. - Yes. - Um, I I I want to ask specifically because, you know, a career in in acting, like anything in the arts, like anything really, is a lot of, you know, working with someone and then working with them again and then them then bringing you back and then bringing you back again. So I I I guess in plainest terms, you know, how do you sort of view um being a person that a director wants to work with? Again, - I don't know if it's a I'm not [ __ ] on your question. I don't know if it's a productive conversation for actors because what I don't want you to do is to have an amazing experience with a director and then they never cast you again and then you think that you did something wrong. That's not true. often times you are the perfect element to execute the vision that they have for that particular project and you're not the perfect element that they need to execute the vision for the next 20 things that they do and that's a hard pill to swallow especially when you go see something and you're like wait a second I I I'm in that guy's type or I'm in that girl's I go up against that person how come I didn't get it did I do something wrong Oh man, that is a mental puzzle of hy jinks that you don't want to play with. So here's what I would say. Whether it's the director, the production designer, the costumeumer, the producer, the casting person, you want people to work with you again because this is a business. It is also an art form and you want people to feel safe and comfortable going into spaces with you where they can feel most creative and most supported. for you as an actor to make other people feel supported. You don't need to bring cookies. You don't need to plan big social outings. You don't need to get everybody's phone number the first day and become friends with them. What you need to do is make strong choices about your character. You need to memorize your lines. You need to show up ready to take direction and be able to adjust on the fly. You need to understand that even though you prepared this big monologue on this day, the one that you weren't expecting to have to do may be something that you're going to have to do. the way that you adjust, maneuver, create, are able to manufacture emotional states of being, how quiet and respectful and just good to be around uh you are, it adds. And if you don't if you're not uh you know, you you may be a person who's not great at expressing your feelings when you're not acting, that's okay, too. You don't have to be everybody's friend. You don't have to send gifts. You don't have to. You want to do the best work you can do as an actor so that people feel safe and comfortable creating with you and you want to be as professional as you possibly can. And then if you're very very very very very lucky, there will be another project in that creator's space or that producer who you didn't even meet who just watched you and was like, I like that person's energy. Oh, wow. I I think that person's really That's it, man. It's really hard because as actors, we're self first, self first. We're all we do all day is, "Do I have good head shot? Is this picture of me good? Is this tape good? Can you watch this tape of me again? How am I doing with this scene? My representation doesn't seem like they care about me. Does anybody really care about my artistic journey?" Or they only care about finding the next young person with the most social media followers. We're self, self, self, self. And then you get on set and you have to put I think this is my opinion. Some actors approach it very some actors will put themselves first all the way through to the end of their career and they seem to be very successful. So again take everything I say with a grain of salt. I think if you enter that space that ensemble and you look for where you can be best utilized and you try to bring the best work that you can to help everybody else's game get elevated you're going to hopefully find you know people really enjoyed the experience of working with you. And for me, as with probably everybody listening to this, I didn't show up in Hollywood or in Chicago for that matter, or the time that I lived in New York with any connections, any family, any friends, anybody who was going to be able to hook me up with anything. So, I understood quickly that the key to my success was relationships, reputation, and the roulette wheel of being an actor. The relationships were when you do sincerely connect with someone, fantastic. Maintain that relationship. Find the people, even if it's a short film or a music video you're doing this weekend for no money, that cinematographer who you're like, "That person is so damn talented or that actor is so cool. That director is going places." Let them know you believe in them. Let them know how much you liked working with them. Maintain a relationship with them. If you do happen to get someone's cell phone or phone number and they are someone who has the ability to cast you in the future, be respectful of it. Be respectful of it. Be start to really understand boundaries and learn what is the appropriate amount of time to send somebody your updated information. I can't answer that for you. You have to go and really dig deep into your own what's insecurity and what's instinct, what's fear, and what's intuition. And then obviously reputation. Are you memorized? Are you, you know, a kind person to people at work? Do you uh take good care of the space around you when you're on set? Do you bring all you can bring as often as you can bring? And finally, the roulette wheel. I I understood and and got it pretty quickly that the more times I spun the wheel, the more chances there were that my number would come up. So, I just wanted to keep spinning the wheel. Every single audition is just another spin of that wheel. And when I got depressed or hung up on a roll or waiting to hear if I was going to get pinned or called back, it was just such a non-useful way to spend my energy. So, I liked the idea of like, I'm spinning the roulette wheel today. I put everything I can into this audition. I spun it. And is is my number going to come up? I I have no control of that now. So, relationships, reputation, and roulette, baby. Spin it as many times as you can. Don't be precious about those spins. Just keep getting out there and and and do it. - You mentioned the the the not having control over over how these things work. You you had two very interesting scenarios in your career. Just, you know, you mentioned it before. You you went into The Dark Knight, auditioned for something else, and for a little bit there, you just thought that you hadn't gotten the role. Yes. - Similar with, you know, something like Ant-Man. - When that started, it was a Make a Write movie and then when that sort of went away, you spent time - looking that that just wasn't going to happen. I'm I'm I'm always curious to hear how you navigated and now view these sort of so close but so far moments of your career, you know, when something feels sure and then isn't so sure because that is I I guess what an acting career is is is made of. How have you navigated those moments and has that changed? - Two, I mean, both related to Nolan and Villainu with the Dark Knight audition. Again, I auditioned for the bank robber clown scene at the beginning of the movie. I was just starting um early table work on a production of a play at that same time. And uh the following week after my call back for the Dark Knight, I read in the paper that they had shot the bank robbery scene with a bunch of clowns. And I was devastated. I was on the train to rehearsal. It was like a 40-minute train ride out to the suburbs at this wonderful theater in Chicago called Writer Theater. And I had my tears. I had my sorrow. I had my mourning moment. Cuz to me that was like such a once in a-lifetime opportunity. I'm a lifelong comic book nerd. I had loved Batman Begins. It was an opportunity to be like a bank robber with the Joker. I was just like, "This is meant to be for me." And I felt really good about the audition considering what John had said. And then the fact that the time in the in the audition with with Nolan felt, you know, good. And then I just let it go. And then I I was like, I got to if I sit around and I could mourn this the rest of my life. I'm not going to. I'm going to go now and give the best I can to this play where I think I was getting 250 bucks a week or something. and I just busted my ass. And we ended up running that play all the way through. That was April, first week of April. We ran that play until July. It wasn't until April, May, June, July. Then I got the call in middle of July that they had wanted to offer me a role for a different part in the movie based on that audition back in April. Think about that. I had let go of it. I had if I had sat around knitting it with my nerves or been resentful. I had so many friends who would go on an audition, get a call back, be pinned, get released, and I understand the impulse, but they would just get so angry and feel like it was a personal slight against them. This casting director is blah, you know, I was like, that energy is not going to work. If you want to do this thing for the long haul, you got to let go of that. That is just going to kill you. So when I got the call, man, it was like it was like publishers clearing house showing up at your door unexpected. You didn't even think in a million years that was going to happen. The first time I got to work with Deny Villanu was um I had been going on a lot of casting workshops in LA cuz I had been in The Dark Knight, but I was really struggling to still get auditions for anything other than commercials and the you know, some good co-star, maybe a guest star role here, like some good indies, but like man, I was hungry. And so I'd gone on all these casting workshops and there was a um there was this really cool series at a time where you could go and work with a casting director or an associate or an assistant and they would really help you work on a scene and kind of give you some tips and this amazing human named Rich Dileia had done a workshop that I had taken and I I learned a lot from him and it was like a long time later but he remembered me cuz he working for Bonne Casting I think as an assistant and he brought me in to audition on tape for Deny who was already in Georgia and I was supposed to have done a different film at that point which um I couldn't make work and I was really frustrated and and I it just all wasn't meant to be. I had that audition. I felt like it was so in the pocket. It felt so right and real to me but so had so many others that I just hadn't gotten. So, I knew to drive away, take off the character, and then go and and do my day. And I did the holidays and I worked out and I was finding my way of managing stress. And it was like 4 weeks later that my agent called and was like, "Hey, remember that thing that you taped for? The director really loves you." Turns out he was just fighting for like three weeks because none of the producers really wanted me because I didn't have a name and I wasn't um somebody recognizable and they were trying to package a film with um a lot of recognizable talent. But for many reasons, Denise decided I was the right guy. One of the reasons being I think we all know he's a massive Chris Nolan fan and he wanted to pick my brain about being in the Dark Knight. Isn't that funny? - You never know. You never You never know. - You never know. whatever it takes to get you that role, man. Are you good with snakes? Then let them know, man. You know, is your mom from Croatia and and you know all this stuff about this that could lend itself to the charact? There's a way to let people know. You know, it's just so interesting to what I mean, this is why I love doing this is just to like see what builds an acting career and it's it's it is never a straight line and it's never ever ever going to be the same as someone else. So that's what makes this so interesting is like - it's never going to be the same story twice. Never. I very much want to, you know, I can't let you go without talking a bit about Street Fighter. But before that, I I I would be very upset to not ask you before we get into Street Fighter just very quickly what it was like to work with David Lynch on uh Twin Peaks: The Returning, because that's a that's something that's very near and dear to my my heart. - Me, too. David Lynch. As a little boy, I was obsessed with the Muppets. And then I was obsessed with monster movies and comic books. And then when I got serious about film, it was like Lynch was certainly the person that brought it all together for me in this m magical way. So when I moved to I think setting goals is really important for you as an actor. So I had the goal of, you know, I I want to work with the Muppets. I want to be in a Bond film someday. And I want to work with David Lynch. Those were like my three goals when I moved to H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H Hollywood and so I was submitting myself all the time through different things and I was always checking backstage and always looking at Actors Access. So, I was always just doing all the stuff that we do as actors and there was and I would cross reference and see like, okay, this person's casting this music video, but then I'd Google them and be like, oh, they also worked on NCIS or they also do this this like just trying to figure out where to put on and how to get in front of the right people. And um there was a short film that was being cast by Christa Huzar who at the time was an associate at Joanna Ray's office and I knew Joanna Ray's name because she's the longtime casting director of David Lynch. So I went to audition for this short film which didn't pay anything but with the hopes that I would impress Joanna Ray. I didn't book the job even though I busted my ass on like a five-page script memor memorizing all this stuff and like giving all I could get. 4 years later, she remembered me and brought me in to audition for David. And when I went to work with this master, at this point, I really understood the mission of like when you trust a director and their talent and their vision, you just give yourself over to them. You just go give yourself. And that's what I did. I just gave myself over to his magic. And man, did he his direction. If you can trust your director and you really feel safe in their arms, you know, creatively speaking, when he would say something to me like, just stare at that clock and don't you deviate your eyes for one second. Just stare at it. Don't don't look away. You're just going to stare at it. And the clock's ticking and like all this time's going by and I'm like sweating and I'm thinking in my mind like what the [ __ ] is going on right now just look at your watch but no don't don't look at it too like I do I just follow him and ultimately what ended up getting cut into the episode where that was being done is like you barely know see any of it but I have this like tension within me that he helped create in my face and my body. It was like it was incredible. It's it's when you know someone's brain is working in a in a in a way that's very hard to understand, but like then you see the finished product and you're like, "Oh my god, that weird way we got there was the way to get to exactly what you wanted to see." - Speaking of weird, well, the only notifications I allow on my phone when I'm doing interviews is my kids, uh, their mom or the babysitter, and I have to respond to a message from the babysitter. So, we can keep talking, but I don't want to be rude. there are uh bigger priorities than than podcast uh podcast recording. - I mean there there it's not podcast recording because this is part of the story which I also love. Like I do why do I do a podcast? Like why do I want to come on here and talk to you? Do I like the sound of my own voice? Sometimes. Sometimes I hate it. But am I promoting a project or two right now? Yes, of course. Do I want to get like exposure for those projects? Yes. But a I got to talk a lot about acting stuff that I want to say to actors more often than not because so many people are like, "How do you make it? How did you how did you make it as an actor?" I'm like, "I can't answer that question. What I could tell you is my thoughts and advice on how to like protect your mental wellness and how to keep yourself mentally safe and emotionally safe. And then talking to you about something, whether it's a past project or one that's about to come out, is part of the story to me. It's storytelling. Like talking about Street Fighter before anybody has seen it or the way we do marketing or the way you do press junkets, it's like I guess you could like the derivative version is like go see my movie. Please buy a ticket. This is why you want to go buy a ticket. Of course, that there's an element of capitalism and business in this that is just like I don't know if icky is the right word, but you want to like you just want it to feel authentic and you don't you don't want to like I don't know. It's not going to it's not going to be awesome if you're just like if that's your mission. I think what's fun about this stuff is like it's a chance to plant the first seeds into people's heads about the thing that they're going to go see. Like that's why I like producing. I'm here in the offices at Good Fiend Films where like I think about key art, first posters, images, how important social media is going to be, why you know there is a reason why sometimes they'll say please don't post pictures from the set. Please don't post yourself because we're trying to craft a story in the audience's minds before they've sat in that seat because they people have already going to have opinions formed based on things like trailers, reviews, what they see on social media. And there's it's not about control either. It's about being a part of the conversation. was talking to you and saying, "I think actors will find it interesting to know that on the outside this might seem like a pretty silly adventure. You're going to go be a part of a video game adaptation into film that looks wild and crazy and audacious. Like, that must have been silly and fun." One of the most terrifying things I've attempted to do as an actor, honestly. like stepping into a a role that is beloved by millions of video gamers who already have created their own narrative in their minds of who this guy is and what he is and what he's supposed to look like based on quite logically what he looks like in a video game which looks much more like the rock than it does Dave Desmolin. It's all of it terrifying and trusting being in the hands of a director like Ktow whose vision was so clear and he he knew what he was trying to do with this role and why he wanted me to do it when I got this call that he wanted to meet with me to talk about this role and what his vision was. I I mean what an amazing feeling. So there's there's that. Um, but I I also think actors will find it interesting that like I deeply am obsessed at this point with genre and like superhero movies and and and big science fiction epics and you know a movie like this to me the there's things that can be so utterly frustrating because you have to let go of a lot of logic rules obviously cuz we're dealing with magic. We're dealing with you know characters that are so much larger than life. Like does it always pissed me off that like you'd have the like the big bad you'd have the like you know the villain who sits at their table surrounded by soldiers in matching uniforms which we understand why that's necessary because it really helps in big fight sequences and also militaristically people are all in the same uniform because that's how military and especially fascism works. So that we understand that, but like it's so I'm looking right now at like a comic book and like look at all the guys who are trying to fight Tigra and and Werewolf by Night and you're like well why do they care so much about their master's mission that they're willing to die or just stand there for eight hours a day holding a gun? Like why? Why? So, I got really into that as an actor and I had some really incredible experiences both with the members of the the Shadowoo Army who were like the actors like, you know, you've got Orville Pekk as Vega and you've got the incredible Mel Jarson in there as Cammy. I mean, Aruli's amazing. There's all these great actors, but there's also on any given day at least five, six, sometimes a dozen actors who are unscripted actors. Talent that are there to mostly stand still and be behind me or next to me and create a texture and a reality. And I think it's so boring if they're all just there. Why? For a paycheck? Like why why would people be willing to die for me? So we would do these great little workshop conversations with, you know, the the the actors if they wanted to. Some of them, I mean, I was like, it's totally your time. If you want to read or do, you know, your phone in between takes, please do. I I'm not trying to force this on anybody, but anyone who's interested, I'd love to know what do you think your character is? And I talked to them about what I think that I brought to their their characters' lives and why they felt so devoted to me. And we would get into these and it was that stuff is so awesome and fun for me. I love it. - I love any anything that you know that's obviously not going to be like immediately apparent when you watch that scene, but like anything that is not it's just adding depth, you know, like why not why not just, you know, why not just add detail where there might not be detail. I am I am curious cuz you know it's it's I hear the amount of work you did for this and then I also hear you say that this is such a terrifying thing to to be to be stepping into something that a lot of people have opinions on. for you, what what gets you from the the initial human reaction of terror and nerves to the work? Like what what carries you from from the from the oh my god, I have the role to I'm now going to the director like really communicating as often as we did was so helpful. Really digging into reading a lot about the kind of mind that could do something like this, even in a fantastical, silly, supernatural way. just trying to really wrap your head around what does cult leadership look like? What does like the peak of the pyramid in fascist movements look like? How do people get others to believe to the point in which they're willing to commit murder behind them? That stuff is fascinating to me. The human psychology of that, the wardrobe, putting on the costume, being in the hands of incredible creators, the production design, getting to move in those spaces. wardrobe gave me my boots months before we started filming so I could really live in them and feel and experience what it felt like to walk around in these giant very like like Mussolini boots, you know, very intense. Loved just the power that I felt coming from them. music, creating playlists and finding good music as I'm getting ready every day and and and getting in character and thinking about the day ahead and and allowing that musicality to really guide and cuz you're doing a lot of flourishes, you know, you're there's a stylistic tone to this film which Ktow was so great at communicating to us. So, a normal person walks around a corner and heads straight forward because they're trying to get from point A to point B. and Bison comes around a corner, his cape needs to flourish. There's a there's a there's a there's a whole form. There's like I love animal work. It did a ton of animal work in this. was like thinking about like what does that animal look like and move like so that whenever David is starting to creep in there I can go back to that that root stuff being on set with amazing actors uh all of whom came with their agame like ready to rock like that was incredibly h that was that was very helpful um and then just continuing to do the work like even though I was in Sydney Australia I was able to log on to my like support group Z zooms do Zoom therapy actually I went to in-person support group while I was in Sydney which was really cool I found a place that was really near so just helping me manage my day-to-day stress and the things that I struggle with getting exercise creating time for myself to do the nerdy things I like to do like watch horror movies and read books and scripts and comic books go comic book shopping playing a little bit Magic the Gathering, although I couldn't really find many Magic players down in Sydney, but that's okay. I I know they I know they're there - in Sydney. - Yeah, if you're listening and you're in Sydney, let us know. - I don't know. That's a long answer to your question, but it's a big one. All my answers are very long, by the way. Thank you for indulging me. - Yeah. - I do. I mean, as I hearing you say that, you know, I um the last person we had on the show was Kate Seagull, someone you've worked with. I mean, we we talked a lot about, you know, just the level of respect that genre storytelling gets. And it's, you know, it gets better, it gets worse. People respect horror, they don't respect tar, whatever. But, you know, I I I hear you. The the work you put into something like Mbison, like Street Fighter is so it's it's it's so incredible. You're a champion of genre storytelling. whether or not it gets the same level of respect. I I just want to ask from your perspective why you think genre stories in particular as an actor are important. You know, like what what is what has it been in your life and what do you think what purpose do you think it serves in the life of of an artist? - Can I share something that's a really big deal for me with you right now, please? Um, I was just invited to become a member of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. - Congratulations. - Thank you. This is for a kid from Kansas who's a comic nerd and a and a genre nerd who loves acting and wants to do everything from, like I said, Tennessee Williams and Arthur Miller to Shakespeare all the way to the next great James Gun DC, you know, mindblower. I I love all of it so much. And I was at my they had a new members um reception the other night. So, I got to go to the Academy Museum. I got to meet all of the leadership and other people who were new members and old members and and we started talking about genre and why it's important and how exciting it is that at this moment a lot of genre creation is getting um recognized in the conversation around cinema that made a difference. Obviously sinners like just blew it out of the water. You look at films like weapons and you look at there's a lot to me genre is the perfect laboratory as a storyteller where I can tickle all of the little 12 and 9year-old parts of me that love the excitement of fantasy science fiction monsters creatures um misan scene world building I can play in that space because it's so fun and creative while underneath it all be wrestling with and creating characters who are going on journeys that are in both relationship to one another and the world around them force them to confront and think about the things that matter to me. David, whether that be addiction, mental health, identity, agency, equity, justice, these are all the things that like on a day-to-day basis between what's going on in the world around us and my own internal world, things that matter to me. And I can do that in a way that doesn't need to I don't think I I don't think I'm I'd be a good preacher. I don't think I'm good at this like this is my opinion and this is why you need to listen to it because that's not what I'm interested in doing. I'm more interested in trying to touch hearts and minds and maybe make people consider some things that I think are really important. But but I don't need anyone to think about that because at the end of the day, genre is so entertaining. And when people go to the movies or they go to the theater or they turn on their TV or their laptop or their phone, they just they want to be entertained. They want to be transported somewhere. And I think genre is such an amazing roller coaster. It's so fun. So it does all these things. And um and who doesn't like putting on fangs in a cape once in a while? - Hell yeah. I I think that is the idea. I'm realizing that we are at time. I think we could have easily talked for a couple more hours, but for now - easily. Can we just keep doing it? - I have so many things - that I want to do. I want to do so many things. - Once you know, Street Fighter comes out, I'd love to like talk in detail about it and everything else you have coming up. This was such a pleasure. We can make this work. - Yeah, it was amazing. And thanks to everyone for listening and um thanks backstage. Thanks as always to our brilliant producer Jamie Muffet and to the whole team at Backstage, Samantha Sherlock, Mark Stinson, Caitlyn Watkins, and of course Casey How. Visit backstage.com and don't forget you can subscribe to Backstage with code envelope at checkout for a free trial. 100% free. You simply cannot beat that. For more exclusive content, find us on Facebook and Twitter, in the envelope, and subscribe, share, and leave a comment. Who should we interview next? Let us know. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next time for another Peek in the envelope.