Theo James and Kaya Scodelario for ‘The Gentlemen’ | Conversations at the SAG-AFTRA Foundation

Hello everyone, happy birthday, if anyone is celebrating that today. Any birthdays here in the room? Anyone? Oh, what a fun icebreaker, yeah. So I'm just sort of curious, I was already jumping ahead to the fact that we know there's going to be a season three, but I'm curious, when you started this in season one, did you know during the first season that you were going to get to expand into a season two? No, we thought it was going to be a massive failure. We actively at one point thought it was a limited series as opposed to an ongoing thing. Did we? I can remember you saying, call it a limited series. That's when we thought it was going to be. We didn't know, we didn't know how, you know, it was Guy's first TV project he'd ever done. We were both new to Guy and he has a very specific way of working and honestly, we didn't know which way the wind was going to blow with it, if you know what I mean. So at what point when you were doing season one, did you start to feel like, all right, I know who Eddie and Susie are, I know what I'm doing now. And then when you hear there's a season two, do you think, oh boy, what is that evolution going to look like? I don't think I ever feel like I know what I'm doing. I've never had that breakthrough yet. But I will say when I read the audition sides, when I first got the sides for Susie, I could immediately hear her. I could hear her voice and I knew what to do with her in a way that I probably haven't felt before. So that was really exciting to kind of to feel like you are excited to understand the character and inhabit them and bring them to life. And then coming back for season two, was that feeling again of, oh, there she is. The second I put on her heels or a handbag or get my nails done for her, she arrives back into me. And it's nice to... And her hair. Let's not forget how good her hair always was. The bangs. The bangs get put on and Susie's back. You guys have both played characters that have repeated in one way or another in films and other shows. But what is it? This is a room full of actors. How does that change your acting when you get to have eight hours to act with this character now knowing you have this season and then the next season? Is that a gift? Is it pressure? How does it affect you? I think it's a bit of both. You have to realize that audiences are inherently very smart. And again, with Guy, it was his first TV again. He's great at doing 120 minutes. But there's an evolution to spending eight hours with them or more, 16 and even more. And I always think of the touch point for me as an actor was when I was kind of getting into it. You know, the great Gandolfini in The Sopranos, like six seasons of an actor who constantly surprises and evolves and the show evolves and changes and makes you question morality and all this thing. So it's a gift in the sense that you get an ability to do that, but also audiences are very astute in the sense that if you don't do that, then they're going to get bored very quickly. And that was with the second season. We felt that we had had some interesting success with the first season, but there were things that we needed to learn from that, i.e., you know, you've got to keep it comedic, but then it can't become too frivolous because with frivolity is fun. But ultimately, over a long period of time, it can become meaningless. So with the second season, we're very keen and I hope you have time, all of you guys, to watch all of the show because it gets much better, but the last four episodes are kind of the strongest episodes. But, you know, the lessons we learned from season one, it's like you need to have character arcs, emotion, you need to see them bleed both kind of emotionally and physically. It's an interesting point you bring up because I do think, especially as TV has gotten so good over the last like decade and two decades, audiences are really smart about plot and seeing what's coming and we all can start recognizing patterns. And what I find so interesting about The Gentleman is you really don't. It's very hard and I'm like, I wonder in the writers room, is there a whiteboard of the families and how they connect and the lordships? There's none of that. None of that. The truth is when we're doing it, we don't know. So much of the show is built in the edit, I think like a real kind of skill of guys is that it's how he plays with timelines and tense and, you know, he will shoot something thinking that we literally shot two, three days in central London, closed off all these streets, did a huge kind of storyline plot thing that he ended up then making not a reality. It was a kind of a dream sort of sequence. But on the day shooting it, we didn't know it was going to be that, which I guess is quite helpful because then you're, you know, you're really in it. But all of that stuff is kind of really built afterwards. Is that considered method? Like, hey, you're really in the scene. It's a method. It's Guy Ritchie's method. So let's talk a little bit about where Eddie and Susie are when we just saw them in season two. But obviously, you know, I think if the show has taught us anything, that appetite for ambition can often lead into some bad places. And can you talk a little bit without spoiling the end, which everyone's going to watch? I'm pointing at everybody because you just heard Thea say the last four episodes are the best. So you have to. But yeah, like where are we finding them and what is sort of their evolution this season? We find them together. Yes. It's about a year later from season one. And they're together and thriving and then they, lots of obstacles get put in their way and they get pushed apart and obstacles come apart. But ultimately, they're kind of on a path towards kind of existential banging or what a way to go. I'd like that the will or they won't, they is like, are they going to make out or kill each other? Like, what is actually going to happen? Kind of the same emotion sometimes, isn't it? Yeah. And that's what we love about the characters is it's something that we kind of decided quite early on with Guy that we wanted to push that as long as possible. And, you know, so just be true to their circumstances and situations. They're both dealing with huge stakes and they have huge ambitions and they're taking it really seriously. They're really good at what they do. They don't have time to kind of swoon over each other. Right. He's not going to take her out on a date in the middle of, you know, all the murdering. There's so much murdering. There's no time. Too much murdering for dating. Theo, I read that you compared Eddie to having echoes of Michael Corleone, which I definitely can see. And I think about that line from season one where it's like, you're not a captain, you're a general. Right. And it's sort of this idea of your character sort of gets pulled into this world, but then you find out you have a great ability inside of it. Did you find that aspect of his character compelling? Because I feel like that would be a fun journey to play someone on. Yeah. We always referenced from the very beginning, in a way, the first season is kind of the first act of Godfather One, you know, before he kills the captain. So it's like a civilian, a moral man trying to just kind of survive and do the best thing for his family. Season two is kind of the second half of Godfather One, in my mind, where he realizes he's good at it. And then the repercussions of power start to affect his sense of soul, really, and what the moral duplicity of that. And that's what I was really interested in and wanted more of, if I'm honest, in season one. So again, we want to push that further in season three. You know, the best characters are the ones that are morally murky and you're intrigued by, but you're revolted by, or you're terrified, and you're charmed by at the same time. The screen characters that I grew up with, or we all grew up with, the ones that are kind of so compelling, have those elements. And you need to keep pushing. Because again, audiences, when you've got TV, you've got hours of time with these fucks. So like, you need to make them interesting. It is. And I feel like the Godfather is a good comp, because as an audience member, you start questioning why you're rooting for somebody at a certain point, you know, which I think is the most interesting part of antiheroes. It's like, we're rooting for these guys, but they're doing a lot of really bad things. And that's like your own thing that you have to start wrestling with, right? Susie and her brother and father are, it's obviously a very important relationship. But I think in this season, we're beginning to see even more tension. Do you feel like the love and sort of, I don't even know, her feelings of loyalty to her family, is it all in conflict with what she's going through this season? Definitely. I think it's something that I wanted to explore. It's really interesting, the dynamic and the structure of their business and of their family, because I think the two are the same things. We don't really ever see them being a normal family. But this is also a woman in her thirties. She isn't a little girl, and she is the one who is on the ground seeing what's going on. She's getting a sense for what needs to be done in order to keep pushing the business in the direction that they want it in. Yet she is completely under the control of her father still. What he says does go. And I wanted to explore how far I could push her standing up to him. They didn't let me go as much as I wanted to, because I think, to me, I want to see Susie completely break away. But again, it's more interesting to try and understand the humanity of that, of loyalty versus ambition and instinct versus staying in line and doing as you're told and what that means. And Eddie represents this path to her that is completely separate from her father and completely outside of the family dynamic and dangerous, but also works really well. And he keeps coming up with these ideas and fucking her family over, but they work. She can see that. She can see that there is something to him. But yeah, I'm interested in exploring her, stepping out from the shadow a little bit and being her own boss. And I really like that Susie is such a boss, do you know what I mean? I feel like in lesser hands, that character would have been like, I'm the pretty sidekick. But she's cool and she's vicious and she's all these things. She's everything in between. And she's fun. The playground of the Guy Ritchie world is great, especially in season one, because you can push it a little bit more. We are kind of just slightly outside of the realms of reality within the show. And so Susie can be perfectly made up and put together, even though she's doing all these things. and how much time she can take and how far ahead she is of everyone else, that she can turn up immaculate always, is because she's so chill about it all. In reality, she'd look like shit. She'd be exhausted. But this leads me to my most burning question for me personally, which is, did you guys get to keep any of the clothes? Do you know what, so many times in interviews in season one, I was asked and I said no. And I think they got embarrassed, so they let me have some pieces this year, but I did get a bill for them. They sent me a bill. Yeah, it's pay for it. And I was like, I don't actually want it. They wanted a bill from Netflix. Yeah. I know. I sent it back. I was like, I'm good. That's the most 2026 in media thing I've heard in quite some time. Plus the Living Crisis one. Everyone's, yeah. Oh, because there's so many times where I'm like, oh, I hope she got to keep that coat. That coat's really, really nice. Yeah. And also another burning question having to do with the Glass family is, what is it like to act opposite Ray Winston? He's just so incredible. He's great. He's a gift. He's good. He's just really good. I mean, everybody is. And I think when you have the opportunity as an actor to work alongside another actor that you really respect and admire, it only makes you better. And I love those days. I have those days with Theo. I have those days with Ray where by the end of the day, I've grown or I've done something that I wasn't expecting to do, and they've brought that out in me. And I love that. That's what creative arts is to me. That's what I fell in love with in this industry, is that we all come together and add our own little pieces to this huge puzzle that then goes off into the world and is no longer ours. And getting to work with actors like Theo and Ray on those days really make you feel like you're adding your piece to the puzzle. Yeah. Oh, that's so nice. I don't know how that all came out. Can you guys talk a little bit about some of the new faces we're going to see in season three? There's another one in this first episode that did not last long. Michele. Very, very handsome chap. Michele. Italian one. And very funny. Hugh Bonneville. He's great. Well, Hugh Bonkeville we talked about. He's really going for it. I just made that up. He's going for it. He's having fun. He's having fun. I think he's enjoying it. Who else? Sergio, who's an amazing Italian actor. Very classy guy. And then who else? I can't think of. My jammer is back. I wanted to ask the beautiful Bella that we only met. She brings out something special, I feel like, in Eddie. What do you think it is besides the obvious? What's the obvious? Well, I think that she's just very fetching. Yes. She represents a kind of version of life where maybe it's a little bit more like the old version of life where it's a lot of fun. But I think the obvious is that she's very fetching. She represents a kind of version of life where maybe he could be a normal man and have a picket fence and children. That doesn't end up happening. If you watch it, which you must. She gets attacked by wild dogs. No, she doesn't. No. It doesn't end. By the way, you're joking, but that is absolutely something that could happen on this show. That's true. And she's a lovely actress. Incredible. And then actors were very good. And I think, as you'll see later, it lends such a class to the show. But they found it quite hard just in terms of the craft of it. Because Guy, I think what's good about his stuff is it can seem fresh. As you saw, you're not sure where storylines are coming from. I think because he gets bored quite easily. So he changes stuff in the moment. You're never going to say the lines that are on the script, essentially. But it's very hard if your second language is English. Because you've learnt reams of dialogue and then six minutes before. They literally bring out a fresh sheet of paper with new lines. As you're sat in the chair with the camera on you, about to go. And if you speak English, that's shit. But if you don't, I took props to them. It's so hard. Do you remember your Arabic that you spoke? No. But I have to speak more in season three. So I have to get stuck into that. And the Italian. Yeah, there was some Italian. I remember the Italian. He's well educated. Yeah, thank God. Actually, one thing, Guy, the theology of it, which you don't get to see. I studied philosophy and theology at university when I was a young kid. And Guy is interested in that. And that's how we started fashioning this idea. Because later in the show, it gets quite biblical in an operatic way. And that was kind of, you know, part of... Yeah, no, you got to the end of the sentence. I almost got to the end of the sentence. It was informed by what I did when I was at university. Yay. And do you feel like Eddie shares some of your philosophical leanings? Yeah, I do. But I think he's a... He doesn't have empathy. And he has leanings of a sociopath. Hopefully, I don't have that. But Guy... I had to go on a shoot with Guy in season two. I told you that. Like an actual... Yeah, you go shoot Partridge. And they fly over. But it's a very British thing. And that's why it's in the show. And Guy has a... Which we shot on his estate. He has a shoot, they call them in Britain. 800 years of history. Where British people go out and kill birds. It's seasonal. They justify it somehow. They justify it. We need to get rid of the birds this year. Exactly. Now defend fox hunting. Go. It's not a great practice. But it's an interesting part of English heritage. And what's interesting about The Gentleman. It's both a celebration of British history. And idiosyncrasies. And it sends them up as well. And shows you how ridiculous they are. But I went on a shoot. And he invited, Guy being Guy. The next duke in line. I think he's the sixth duke. Of... Blenheim Palace is their seat. And his dad is old. And he'll probably cark it soon. So he's this young duke. Kind of my age. And it was really interesting. Because it still exists. It's a reality. And he wanted to chat to me. Because I guess we've made dukes cool. Even though they're kind of gimp. But he... There is a lot of wealth there. But indentured wealth. And there is this sense of. I can't remember what he said. But if you saw him. If you walked in. He'd just be a goofy English dude. But I said. What do you think you're going to do. Once it's passed down to you. And you become the duke. And he said. I think it's my duty. We've had that seat for 500 years. It's in the bloodline. Which is weird. Because you think all that stuff is. I had a question about that. Because so much of the show. I don't think it could take place. In any other country. Than in England. I mean Americans have their own class issues. And their own empires. And things like that. But it just doesn't have. The sort of institutional tale. It's kind of embedded in us. I think in America. It's more currency based. And wealth. We unfortunately to some of the classes. Detail that as soon as you're born. This is the bracket that you're in. And you'll never get out of that. Even if you are successful financially. Or in your career. You will always be a working class person. Or a middle class person. And that's what the show kind of plays with. This idea that these two families. That should be on absolute opposite ends of the spectrum. Need something from each other. And feed each other. And are just as disgusting as each other. Disgusting man. I remember reading. When the actors were getting ready. To do the show succession. They had to take classes. On how to act like they were born wealthy. Really that's fascinating. They took classes on how to enter a helicopter. Without ducking. With your bag thing. What guys told you about the bag. That's what I was curious. Did you have to learn any of these things. That the person you went shooting with. To Kai's point. When I did the very first scene. On The Gentleman. I get out. And I've come home. As a soldier. I get out of the car. The car pulls up. A chauffeured car. And I got out. And I went to get my bag. To bring it into the house. He said no. Don't get your fucking bag. The butler feels offended. If you were to take that piece of his job. In the kind of. Suburban middle class me. Let's help him out. That echelon of society. Has a whole different. Ramifications and rules. Interesting. Have you guys heard from anybody. Inside that world. You're doing that wrong. My old drug dealers. Are really happy with the performance. Yeah. Cool. You're doing good. These giant country houses. And this season. You guys are in Italy. How does that affect. Your performances. When you're actually. It must be nice. Not to be in a windowless studio. Pretending to be on these beautiful. Piazzas. It's a joy. To take an entire production. One of the joys of working in the UK. Is we're so close to Europe. It's much easier for us. To plop over to Italy. It's wonderful. Because it gives you a sense. Of the culture of that country. What that means for those characters. That you're working alongside. Seeing the history of these places. Seeing how beautiful everything is. You completely understand. Why Bella is this beautiful angel to Eddie. The spirit of Italy. Everything that comes with that. It gives the characters. A real identity for us. When we're out there. It's nice. You do have to lock in. I've got a friend's birthday. On Wednesday night. Thursday morning. You're with your crew. Your classmates. You bond. You fall in love. It's interesting. When there's different directors. On different episodes. How do you guys handle that? At a certain point. I would imagine. You feel like you are the authority. On who your characters are. Even more so than people. Who are coming in. Who hadn't done previous ones. You do. Unlike one of my first jobs. A CBS procedural. You have to make sure you give the director. Enough authority. They want to be able. To create the best work. They want to be confident. I have been in that. Back in the day. I was young. Directors would come in. In that procedural environment. And get walked all over. In this space. If they are given enough authority. They are going to have better work. Ultimately. We know the characters. We are not lining up shot lists. We both like working with directors. Some actors don't. I really enjoy the relationship. You want them to understand the world. Our other director. Knows the world really well. He works closely with Guy. To understand it. I think that's what we like. It feels slightly different. With Susie. With this character. More than anyone I have ever played. I stick to my guns. More than I normally would. I can steer her. I could be wrong. Can you talk to the writers. This is what I would like to see happen. My character would never say that. Theo does. The scripts are never written. I don't understand how this is happening. What do you mean? Genuinely. They don't exist. They are skeletally. You know where you are. And vaguely what is happening. This seems very difficult. Like an improv theatre company. It's pretty fucking stressful. It's not great. Is this some sort of psychological experiment. Being posed as a television show. For actors. It's what he does. It's what he has always done. If you look back on any interviews with actors. It's unique. It's an interesting experience. I've heard the phrase getting richied. It's a verb. That was me actually. Did you start it? I did. It's a good one. It's funny as well. The structure of TV. That's how he works. But he can't direct all of them. It's interesting with our show. That has been the case. That has permeated down to the rest of the show. Even when he's not there. The episodes aren't written. I'm kind of joking. I guess what we've learned from it. What's good about it. Freeform guy. He wants to know what's interesting and fresh. If a script comes. It's a bit fucking boring. Let's do something interesting. I think for comedy. Especially. That's a good thing. That may be at the time. That now has permeated down. Kind of like. You get an idea of where we're going. What will happen each scene. Everyone is like. We'll figure it out on the day. Okay. This again. We're going to have to wrap things up in a second. Before we go. I'm curious. Where do you hope things go. For Eddie and Susie. I've always liked the idea. Somehow. They take over the world. And destroy each other. But not the world. I'm going to make it very vague. That's all. You can fill in the rest. We talked about. Macbethian. I would like my character. To convince Susie. That they have to murder her father. Then they murder him. Then she ultimately feels poison. With guilt. Then kills me. Then you finish the show. You guys heard it here first. We know how this is going to end. Thank you so much for your time. Everyone keep watching. The Gentleman's Season 2. Thanks so much.