Cast and Filmmaker for ‘Gangland’ | Conversations at the SAG-AFTRA Foundation

Thanks everybody for joining us, powerful film, I'm sure you'll agree. So this is focusing on actors, so we're going to start with talking about when you read the script or audition for Gangland, what was the hook or the challenge that made you say I have to do this? Let's start with Luke. Wow. Okay, let's just jump into the deep end, shall we? Thank you all so much for coming out tonight. I know that the entire cast and certainly Vincent as well, and thank goodness Elisha Pratt was supposed to be with us who played Richie. But my man is working and he's, yeah, he's working with my old friend Kiefer Sutherland tomorrow so he couldn't be here tonight. But his heart is with all of us. It is a very, very special privilege and honor to be here with actors, because you guys know, you know what it takes to do something like this, okay? So the thing about it is, and here's the lesson I want many of you to take away from this tonight. I got a wonderful email from a dear friend, Megan Griffiths, who I met on the festival circuit. She sent me an email saying that a dear friend of hers, Vincent Grascha, also from the festival circuit, had a script and that I was his number one choice. Obviously I knew this man was a genius. So I'm predisposed to like it. You guys know how it is. Sally Field says, you like me, you really like me. So I'm just hoping this is good, man, because, you know, if I'm his number one choice, it's like, really? You're going to offer me a piece of shit? But the thing about it is, is that this script, I was hooked, I think, by page five and it just kept getting better. Now the interesting thing about this film, I think all of you might agree, even with a name like Gangland, and it was originally called Keep Quiet, it isn't what you expected. It isn't what you thought it was going to be. And the more I got into the script, the more I realized this was the case. This was not some sort of simple thriller. The dynamics, the connection, the backstories, not only of my character, but of so many of these characters in the script, were so rich. And I knew this guy. I knew this guy so well. I'm a military brat. My dad did two tours in Vietnam. His experience, people I grew up with, I've played God knows how many cops in my career. And I've been on a number of reservations, having been adopted into the Lakota nation, to the Cheyenne nation. And so I knew this reality. And a number of people have asked me, well, what did you do to prepare for this role? And I don't mean to be trite, but my answer has always been, well, I lived. I lived this, you know, not specifically this character's journey, but I know who he is and I know his environment and I know what he goes through. And so, as I said, I was hooked to begin with, but the more I read the script, the more I was so grateful to have a role like this that was going to challenge me and that was going to, I felt from Jump Street, that was going to be impactful, not only for the indigenous community, but for cinema in general, because, you know, to me, this is a, it's a bit of, and we're seeing a lot of these this year. And I'm not going to mention the other films, but we are seeing a renaissance, I think, of character-driven stories, which is what we all, you know, aspire to. Yeah. We love this, you know, I mean, this is going back to things like Taxi Driver, The Godfather, you know, Dog Day Afternoon or whatever that are, yes, they're thrillers. Yes, there's a momentum to them, but they are at heart character studies. And that really, really spoke to me. And so it was, it became a very easy yes. Oh, so, you know, this woman, this matriarch that was Chelsea, she is this person that cares so much for her community. And in my experience of being an individual who also happens to be indigenous, the world of our indigeneity sort of surrounds... A great word. Yes. I'll be using that, indigeneity. The world of our indigeneity surrounds the actual, the, okay, the Lakota people have a tiyoshpi, it is the house, it's the mother's house. And everyone makes their houses around the mother's house. And that's this woman, she's the mother's house. And to have the mother's house have been so violated, it was something that I feel indigenous people know about, understand, and needs to be told. But also, I think it's such an important thing at this time, now, that we cannot keep quiet. We cannot. And that, you know, these secrets, this shame that has, that permeates this kind of act that happens in communities that we don't talk about, that should be talked about. I think we could heal ourselves in a way. And I felt that way when I read this script, that there is a healing, that there is a healing that is wanted. And there is a healing that we want as a society. As a society, and this story presents it in a way that I just had to be here, I had to be here. What was the question? The question was, when you auditioned or read the script, what was the hook that made you want to take this role that said you wanted to be in this role? Well, not so much. Well, I mean, the story is great. I think it's an amazing story. But I think it was the deeper traumas that it was presenting for our people. You know, to have that story told that it wasn't just a mad, sad or upset person. There was a lot of trauma that he was dealing with, not just from what had happened to him, but what we've been dealing with through generations. So just to see that story told and be a part of it is, you know, what really made me gravitate to it. Multigenerational trauma. So history is don't go. Oh, I see. Got to the gate. True. Hope to close moment. I beat got to the dagger. I'm going to what else? So what appealed to me on this when I read the script is something I can relate to personally, coming from a troubled past and dealing with my family and drugs and stuff like that. And I feel like it's something I need to be told. We always keep quiet about things like that. Don't tell them it's our business type thing, but something to be brought to the light. I mean, bring this trauma to the light, heal yourself. You know, I mean, we need to be healed. We're all hurting somewhere. So I feel like it's something that could kind of put that out there and put the message out. I'm from the Irish tribe, so I got a call from my agent saying, I didn't submit you for this role because it's just a day player. You guys know what that is. And I try not to do day players anymore. And so I read for it because the casting director asked for me. I've been acting since I was 15, theater major in high school and college. That's where Lou and I met back in 1980, our first day in college together. And yeah, we've known each other a long time. And well, we did plays together and he's directed me in Bull, East New York, The Cleaning Lady. But this was the first time we've acted together since 1983. So it was great. But I didn't know he was in the movie. All I all I I'm going to go ahead and just tell the story. All I knew was the two little scenes that run back to back that I read for. And so I read for it and then they called, said they wanted to have a call back. And I went, I'm not doing a call back on this. Sorry. You know, I've been doing this a long time. I was also a police officer for 30 years. So this is really within my wheelhouse. And my phone rings and it says Lou. And I'm like, well, shit, something's wrong because Lou texts me or sends me a message through Twitter. He doesn't call. And he said, did you read for this movie? And I said, yeah, I did. And he said, well, I told the director about you and he liked you. I didn't know he'd read, by the way, I thought of him as soon as I read the script. Yeah. He was mentioning that you recommended him and he had already read and the director was like, yeah, I liked him, but he's not available. And I was going to Santiago, Chile to film a series. And I didn't know if I was going to be back in time. So he's like, OK, well, you know, you this is like on a Tuesday because it's all within that week. It was like on a Tuesday. And he says, when will you know? I said Friday. And he said, OK, so Friday, if you can do it, you know, let me know and we'll do the movie. And I said, time out. They also want me to do local hire. And I said, I'm not paying my way to come there to work for a day. How difficult is cheap? He didn't know whether you're preaching to the choir. He didn't he didn't know any of this. So the best part of the story for me was when I said that Lou went, OK, and he hung up on me. And I was like, oh, crap, I just pissed Lou off. And he called back within about five minutes and says, you've got a hotel call this Friday. And I got Vincent's phone number so I could call and talk to him. And I left Santiago, Chile at eight o'clock at night on a Saturday, landed at seven in the morning on a Sunday and then got to Oklahoma by six o'clock so we could all go to dinner and woke up Monday morning and was on set eight o'clock in the morning. So in less than a 36 hour period, I went from Santiago to Oklahoma and was on set and was thrilled to be there because. I only saw my line, you guys know that, right, is like, oh, you're a day player. Here's you know, I'm not giving you a whole script. So the first time I saw the movie, I was blown away, totally blown away. And I've been out trying to help promote this because it is a phenomenal film and you did a great job. And I have to thank Lou for saying, do the fucking film. If I could, if I could just piggyback on that for a second, and this was why it was so important and you guys will understand this, but it's also a matter of doing a good job so that you get called back again. This is this is important. You know, there are people that you work with multiple times. And I knew that role, though small, was pivotal, hugely, hugely pivotal and needed somebody who came with the gravitas, but also in a few amount of lines, there had to have been an inferred history between our two characters. And in my mind, James was the only guy to do this. We shot this movie in 18 days. Really tight schedule. My end of it was 15. And Vincent totally vetted me, and I'm sure he'll talk about that in a moment. But, you know, asked me for suggestions. Irene was one of my suggestions. Kim Guerrero was another. You know, Vincent had worked with Nick Stahl and Donna Nameroad before. You can't you can't go for the grab bag. You can't go for a box of chocolates. You have to know what you're going to get. You know, you cannot, you know, risk somebody upending the apple cart when when, you know, every minute counts, every take counts. And so you try to, you know, hedge your bets and stack your deck. And for me, it was having a character, you know, like Irene in Chelsea and James in, you know, Sheriff Ainsley, where I knew they had my back. I knew that they were going to deliver. So so my advice to you is be that person that somebody else knows is going to deliver and you damn well better deliver when when he pulls pull strings to make sure you get there. And Vincent, you found this script online on Blacklist. So what made you want to jump on this? Yeah, I I was just browsing the Blacklist. I don't know if you all know what that is. It's a website where writers can upload scripts, pilots, books, and every year they have a selection that the best of the Blacklist or whatever. This was not on there, but I just happened to come across it and I read it. It seemed wholly authentic. I was just really impressed with how real it felt like lived in. And I just reached out to the guy. It was his first script. And he was an actual officer in Canada who policed on reservations. And so it hit me then I was like, OK, obviously, you know what you're talking about. And just got to know him. And I said, look, I want to present this to my side, my team. And they loved it pretty quickly. Like we were off making it like right away, started casting. And I was just basically vetting Lou to make sure he's not an asshole, because honestly, like it's such a big deal. I've done movies where, you know, a lot of times like the bigger names are really cool. And then you'll have like the third or fourth lead that somehow has got a lot of heat and they can hijack your whole experience. And that word travels so fast. So those kind of actors may have a lot of heat and they're so talented. But Lou, I know how talented he was, but I hit up Megan because I was like, you worked with him three times. So I feel like I know the answer. But is he nice? Like what's he like in that way to work with him? And she just was a gem. So that's when we made the offer and felt pretty confident based on her word to put in a good word for us at that point. And we're lucky enough to get him. The first person we went to was Lou and he said, yeah. So very grateful for that. And yeah, hit it off right away, I think, too, you know, like it's just you're lucky if you're a filmmaker that gets someone like him who's done it, but also there's no ego. I mean, you're there to all do something on this low, low, low budget and kind of get to the finish line with something good. And so and hopefully doing it justice. And I feel like obviously I'm an investigative type filmmaker. I like stories of worlds that I'm not Native American, obviously. So jumping into that, I feel like on several films of mine, you're walking a little bit of a tightrope of doing it justice. And that's why on something like this, I love that collaboration with the community, not just the community, but with actors, non-actors, Michael. It's his first film. And all of a sudden, he's he's, you know, he told me his story. He told me a story on his phone, like what his past was. And I was like this, you know, I give him a shot and just zoomed and cast him. We didn't really even audition. It was just about getting to know each other. And yeah. And Elisha Pratt, who plays Richie, was just came in as a freaking superstar, that kid. One of my hopes, yeah, he came in on audition and was just, you know, perfect for that. But something about like someone like Elisha, who I just seen him, I'm like, this guy needs to be plucked and put in something big. And it shouldn't even be about him being Native American in a Native American. I want to see more roles for people like that, that are just of people like, you know what I mean? Like who gives a shit? Like, I don't I like I love when stories like this are told and it gives the opportunity. But I want to see more roles for Native Americans in movies just about people that, you know, they're just people about everyday life stories that it's very relatable. For a film this particular, though, I know you put in an advisor that you had worked with on Longmire, you said. You know, I've literally this has been a banner I've been waving for many, many years, man. You know, being an actor of mixed race and whatnot, it's like and I always tell young actors, it's like, don't don't be the best African-American actor you can be or the best Asian-American actor or the best Native American. Be the best actor, capital A. Let your talent be the criteria by which they judge you. And we get those crossover opportunities. You know, there are a number of, you know, actors even in the indigenous community, you know, have crossed over and have done roles that are just, you know, the cop or the mayor or the this or the that. And that's really, really important. But when dealing with a film like this, it was it was very important and it has been my honor. It has been my absolute privilege to be an ally and an ambassador for the indigenous communities for many, many years now, going back to Young Guns, you know, and every single time I approach it in the same way, and that is with respect and with a desire to bring dignity and honor to the community. And you can't just play Indian just like you can't play Latino or or even or even cop as well. You shouldn't, to be quite honest. You need to be very, very specific in what you're doing. And who am I representing? Because Lakota is different than Navajo is different than, you know, Cherokee is different than Inuit. And I play them all. And and yes, like the UPS logo, what can Brown do for you? But as soon as I read this script, I knew we needed a voice. And this was before any of the other casting. And Irene brought some great, great questions and thoughts and suggestions to the table. In the very early discussions, when they were kind enough to allow me to be an executive producer on this, one of the first things that I did was say, listen, I got a brother of mine who is, you know, he is so good at this that I would not number. It started with let me run the script by him, but it turned into him being our technical advisor and an executive producer and appearing in the film. And that is Marcus Red Thunder, who was my technical advisor on Longmire for six years. And and Marcus walks that really beautiful line between what is traditional and respectful and necessary and what needs to be done for a movie or a TV show. And he often says, you know, it's not a documentary. What do you what do you what do you got to do to tell the story, you know, and and finding those compromises in some of some of Marcus's suggestions were fundamental to the the dynamic of this film. Number one, don't name the tribe. Don't even name the state we're in. Thunderstone is fictional. You don't know if you're in Oklahoma. You don't know if you're in South Dakota. You don't know if you're in Minnesota, because this story is universal. It applies all across the board and not just with indigenous people. It could be the south side of Chicago, the east of L.A., Seattle, Miami, whatever. This is a problem that so many families of different nationalities face. And the other thing that I think was actually key and it was a discussion between Vincent and Marcus and myself in that it's like, let's not make Teddy native. Teddy is a perennial outsider. And it is one of those things that the community keeps him at an arm's distance. As you all know now, you know, the thing that he's so guilt ridden about. But it's one of those things where he wants to protect and serve, but also to belong. And that was so much a part of why the film ends the way the film ends and is so necessary. But it's his journey. It's his journey of redemption, you know, and it just it just provided that little thing, where he married into the tribe, but he's not of the tribe, you know, made such a difference in how the other characters view him, how he views himself, you know, how, you know, the education that Sandra gets, you know, throughout, you know, because she's, she's, you know, taking the torch from him. She's going to be the perennial outsider, but it is her duty to to serve, you know. And so it was it was Marcus. Marcus was just so insightful into a lot of a lot of those details. Did that make it easier or more difficult since you weren't so specific with a tribe or a location even? Um, it's, you know, no, it'd be because because so many of us, I mean, we're all from different nations, you know, we all have different blood, but we all have a shared experience in what that's like. So it we weren't doing necessarily, you know, Lakota or Navajo ceremony or anything like that. The whole indigenous culture is represented, you know, it sort of was the phrase that Marcus uses pan, pan indigenous, you know, pan native. And so it's true and it's authentic without having to be terribly specific, you know. But it's it's it freed up a lot of things. But I think the location itself was it was a huge contributor to Plains, Indiana. Well, we shot outside of Oklahoma City in January. For those of you who are Broadway fans, believe me, the wind does come whipping down the plane. It really does. It froze our nuts off, those of us with nuts. But damn, it was oh, my God, it was cold. It was it was freezing. But but it that that location and we shot on a lot of Cheyenne Arapaho land and one of my favorite scenes in the film. I want Vincent to talk about this. It's so contributed to to the entire atmosphere and tone and feel of the movie because of the actors, man. It just you know, it just comes up through your boots. It just it just inhabits you and you you become part of the terrain. And then it was really beautiful in that respect. Yeah. And just to piggyback off the the script and how it evolved initially, it was written to take place in Canada. And they don't have reservation police, the same the tribal police they do in America. So to switch it to America and to kind of deal with the jurisdictional issues, I thought was a really interesting thing that they just didn't deal with there. And so switching it, we had we included some of that aspect. And so the jurisdiction between the sheriffs and tribal police and things that I didn't wasn't aware of it when I first tackled it was if you're a tribal police officer doesn't mean you essentially even live on the reservation. So you can have tribal cops that aren't even Native American. I didn't know that. And so there was a lot of things that I think we injected into the script that helped making it more of a universal thing in in the US. Yeah, that was a whole learning experience, right? I mean, even transferring from Canada to the US and then for you, it's a whole different world. Yeah. And in that like, South Dakota, Pine Ridge has a significant, the same sort of issues that they did in Canada, at least, I mean, this, the writer would show me Facebook profiles of gang members that he, you know, would encounter. He's like, yeah, this guy, his name is our Shambo. And he was like, yeah, he's the guy that puts people in the trunk. Because that wasn't initially in the script. I was like, I need some levity in this movie. Like, what is the craziest, funniest thing that you went through? And he's like, oh, we would drive by this car, this gang member we knew, and he would punish his own crew if they like screwed up and he put them in the trunk. And I was like, we have to put that in like, it was just hilarious. And that's that's him in the trunk. It's Vincent in the trunk. It was Yeah, that's him delivering the lines. And so the Donna's and my reactions are very real, because first of all, we didn't expect our director to be that good of an actor, you know, and I realized later he went in the trunk probably because it was the warmest place on set. But no, this man walks the walk. Just for general knowledge, what he's talking about is that there's tribal police, which is federal land, and then there's there is traditional police, which is there generally with our county. What happens a lot of times is those jurisdictional lines, like something might happen there. And so therefore, nothing gets done because it was it's never been really determined who, which law enforcement is meant to take care of it, which is why we have such the murdered and missing indigenous peoples problem. They would just infringe on the line because like, oh, one of our guys went in there, we're just going in. They wouldn't even get approval. At times they break the treaties and that way and just deal with it later kind of thing. And in their mind, they're going for criminals. So they're like, no, like, this is what we have to do. And so I always like like when your villains are, their motivation makes sense, at least in their eyes, like, so I'd like my villains in the movies to somewhat be maybe 10%, right? And people like lose character, maybe 10% wrong. And to have that sort of conflicting, like at times lose characters, right? And Sanders characters, right? And lose characters wrong. Like, so even Elisha Pratt, who plays Richie, when you hear where he came from at the end and sort of get to know him in that way, and, you know, there's a guy who is a triple murderer in the beginning of this film. And you're like, well, how do you kind of not, I mean, you humanize them. And so that's one of the things I loved in the script, too. It just took every character and it gave them a background, everyone. My metaphor for that is that, you know, this is a neo-Western to a certain extent. You know what I mean? The old Westerns, not only were they shot in black and white, they were very black and white. Black hat, white hat. Pretty simplistic. And our neo-Westerns finally look at things from a different perspective. And they allow a character like Richie to have a point of view, which in some cases is pretty accurate, you know? And it forces our audiences to think, I know me as a young actor, the first time I ever took that turn and going, oh, was, you know, Little Big Man and one of my favorite films of all time. And it's like, ah, okay, I'm looking at it from, you know, through a different set of eyes now. I want to get, I know we're talking actors, but if you get a chance to work with a director like Vincent, there are two things that I want to say is that, number one, the idea that Chelsea is the one that shoots Richie was Irene's. She came up with that. She came up with that. And you have a director who's willing to go, wow, you are right. She presented that to him and Vincent had the wherewithal and lack of ego to go, you're right. I'm not fooling that idea. No, it was a no-brainer. I mean, yeah, I remember that you brought that up and it made so much sense. I mean, I hear how that came to you actually. Well, one of the things about, I think Chelsea, and it's a way, it's going back to the whole, the mother thing, the mother earth that, you know, mother earth will still, you know, will still sustain life, you know, some, but, you know, it may not be humans if we don't start acting correctly, right, you know, that kind of a thing. And for her, this sickness, this darkness, this pain, this trauma, this suffering that has occurred to her own child, to that which came from her, of her, and to just know how much pain he is in as well, that he is in pain that, and that now because of that, it's causing the, you know, entropy of that is causing pain to just be spread everywhere. And she sees this and understands that, you know, we have this multi-generational trauma and the only way to make our way through that is to stop the cycle. And so, in a way, it was in order for her to give her, her, you know, this boy a chance, any chance, she had to sacrifice this, this which had been so plainly muddled to the point of so much pain and suffering that she, she realized that she, she, it was the only thing to do. It was the only thing she could do. I want, I just wanted to second what Lou said. I was only on set, obviously, for a short period of time, but if you get a chance, definitely work with this man because he's worried about the shot. And then he just steps back and says, let's see what you got. And then he can make an adjustment there if he needs to, but he wants to see what you bring first. And as an, you want a director that's an actor's director and that's, that's what this man is. That's something you learn too, because I usually would have it all spelled out where the actor's got to walk. And I did, I did something with this actor named Michael Parks. Do you guys know who that guy is? He's passed away now, but years ago, I was going to work with him. Ben Cain Bronson. This guy is one of the best, he's, he's just incredible. And he was very sick at the time when I was with him, like, and we were going to do this movie. And what he was, he does this thing that he's so good in others movies, all his movies. And I was like, Hey, so for this part, do I was telling him and he's like, don't fucking tell me how to act. And I was like, nevermind. And so it really taught me how to like, yeah, I mean, don't tell them what to do. Like really? I don't, I don't mean like, what's your motivation? I just mean like, they know it, you hired them. They're doing their thing. Let them have the playground and you can go from there with them. And that's something that I learned after a few things. I know, I know we're out of, we're out of time, I guess. So we're in prep, I'm not, I'm not to Oklahoma yet. He goes on a location scout and he calls me like almost immediately goes, can you come out a few days early? And I'm like, well, why? Because on this schedule, man, it was scheduled down to the, to the minute. And he goes, I, I was, you know, scouting Cheyenne Arapaho land and they said, do you, do you want to see our 600 head bison herd? Oh yeah. I mean, that's one of the most really great scenes, so powerful. Just being able to be there for that, um, they, they didn't, I didn't know what to expect. They said, come and see this ranch of 600 bison, or I was like, oh wow, okay, that's going to be cool. But you couldn't see anything. And so I'm there in the land and I watched this and they drive this truck up and it's dropping food and it's making this loud clanking sound and you hear this like rumbling. And we're like, what is that? And over this mountaintop, there's 600 of them charging at you and you're like, holy shit. And, and not only that, it's like a very emotional thing to witness. I, you can all imagine like just the history, uh, uh, in the community. I can just imagine how beautiful it just, it was something that was very moving. And they were gracious enough to let us film there. And so then Vincent and Zach Money, you come up with this scene and we call it day zero because it doesn't fit anywhere in the schedule. And the location is so far out, you know, that, that we have to do it before we start shooting the actual film. And it's, it's, it's Vincent, it's Marcus Red Thunder. It's Brandon Waddell, our cinematographer, his first film, by the way. Um, yeah, amazing. And we didn't even have sound. I mean, he had, he had a nagra with a zoom and we put it on the air conditioner, uh, you know, in the truck and then me and Tommy Schultz and they, you know, he had sent me this, this, uh, scene, you know, ahead of time. And yet, once again, I'm talking about a director who's able to, you know, has such an ironclad plan, but is able to pivot, pivot because this is going to make the movie so much better. And to me, that scene is about survival and resilience and forgiveness. And it's such a small scene, but I mean, as he said to me with, you know, 600 head of Buffalo, it's just like so powerful. And it is, it is truly a turning point in the film where, where Teddy is, is on his way to, you know, his, his ultimate, you know, resolution, but in that moment is okay with it. And it just symbolically and metaphorically, it is, it is, uh, uh, it's, it's hard to believe that it was tacked on at the end. Yeah. I mean, it goes to show, I mean, my experience was seeing how resilient the community is and, and how like, um, just the gracious and, and how they, I mean, just to even give us the blessing there, um, that whole ceremony, just talking to them, just so positive and upbeat when there's every reason not to be, um, I was just impressed in how like resilient and positive, um, that community was. Um, and so, yeah, it's just, it was like an emotional experience on that day. Um, and then obviously the bison was just around the truck, boom, it would run into the truck, interrupt their scene. And it was the one, uh, bison who was domesticated. What's his name? His name's Kiefer. Of course it is. And one of the background, uh, tribal cops, he goes, have you met Kiefer yet? And I was like, yeah, he goes, that, that bison was abandoned by its herd. And it was when he was a baby. He's like, I slept with that bison Kiefer for six weeks and it was growing and he became a domesticated bison. So he was the only one that was like, you could socialize and hang out with and he wouldn't hurt you. But he was the one bumping into the truck during the scene. He was well-named. I will say that. Kiefer. Well, I love that you ended the movie, you know, that you went back to the bison and just, uh, resilience, right? There was so much footage. I felt like, ah, the movie ends pretty, really intensely. I was like, we need this reprieve and that there was so much footage to, I was like, I just want people to sit with that. Beautiful stuff. We're out of time. That goes fast. Thank you. Gangland. Thank you.