Sam Rockwell on Acting Opposite John Malkovich + Trusting the Story

And he said, "Well, I have no lines." He says, "No, no, no, you have many, many, many lines. You have tons of lines. You have a whole You have four pages of lines. You think of these lines to say. You think about saying them, and then you decide not to say them. And that's kind of the best way to put it, you know? Is that you're always about to say something, and then you don't say it. - [music] - Don't want to jump right in and say congratulations on this incredible film. Already getting such an incredible reaction, which also includes a 14-minute standing ovation at the Venice Film Festival. I'm always curious to ask what goes through someone's head during a 14-minute standing ovation. - Uh yeah, well, uh you Yeah, you can't really step out for a cigarette or hamburger. Um Yeah, then you got to go to see your shrink to shrink your head, you know? Um No, it's a very uh it's a it's very flattering. It's incredibly humbling and and beautiful and um you can't You're kind of speechless. You don't really know what to say, you know? It's It's really like It's It's It's really I It's Yeah, it's crazy. - I I imagine it's hard to describe what those what happens from minute 1 to minute 14. Reading the the press notes, reading a ton of interviews you've given, I've seen multiple people, you included, use the term tennis partners. This film has great tennis partners. - Yeah. - Assuming you're not talking about the actual sport, what does that mean? And you know, as an aspiring actor, you know, like is that something How do you become a great tennis player as an actor? - Well, did you study Meisner by any chance, or did you uh study - I did not, but I've talked to many people about Meisner. - Well, you know, Meisner's kind of a tennis match uh if it's done well, I guess. And just any kind of acting is, you know? I I think the tennis [clears throat] analogy is probably better any other sports analogy for acting because you're hitting the ball, you're hitting a curveball or whatever, you know, I don't know a lot about tennis. I know more about boxing, but I like but it's I think it's more like tennis, you know, because you're you want somebody to swing hard, you know, and I think it's there's a misnomer that you know, actors I think I actors want to be pitched a hard ball or or or you know, a curveball or whatever because um you you have to you have to constantly depend on that person to raise your game, I guess. - I'm curious, you know, when you look back on studying Meisner, learning how to act, getting, you know, your first jobs. Is it What was the the aha moment where you learned that basically? You know, like I know that a lot of, you know, aspiring actors, first-time actors, a lot of their attention is on themselves and then you have to sort of learn that it's actually easier to just respond and react. At what point in your career did did that become most apparent to you? - Well, yeah, I mean, [clears throat] there's a lot of aha moments throughout your career and I you know, there's so many to go through, but I um big ones with Gene Hackman, big ones in Meisner training with Bill Esper, and um constantly learning from anybody from Tom Hanks to Drew Barrymore to Frances McDormand to John Malkovich, you know, it just goes on and on, you know. And it might not be necessarily an acting problem per se, it could be just the way somebody handles themself on a set, you know, George Clooney comes on set, he's always got a smile for the crew and you know, a thank you and a please, even if even if he's not in a great mood and he's hasn't slept or whatever, you know, and that takes a lot of grace, you know. You learn from people like that, you know. - Absolutely. We um we also talked to uh casting director Sarah Finn, casting director of Wild Horse 9, and we know who we're talking about how she cast everyone, but in particular when she was talking about casting you, she said something really interesting about how she was particularly interested to see you uh act equally powerful in moments of silence, you know, understanding and listening. Uh that's a huge part of, you know, cuz it's you you like I said, a lot of this is just taking in what John Malkovich is saying. What is the challenge for you of acting in silence, of playing silence, of playing listening and understanding? - Oh, I love it. I love it. It's great. To listen and and not say anything. You know, it's uh you you're always saying something even if you're not talking, you know. There's always something going on. Hopefully. - Well, I'm I'm I'm curious when you you know, I hear actors say there's something going on. Like what You know, this is such a What is going on in your head? You know, when when you when when is a silent scene, what is going on in your head? - You know, I guess there's the the the word subtext is um a valuable word. I think it's just uh You know, Michael Caine I think said something like - [snorts] - you know, um a some director said to him, you know, "What are you What are you thinking?" or something or you know, and I said, "Well, I have no lines." He says, "No, no, no, you have many many many lines. You have tons of lines. You have a whole You have four pages of lines. You think of these lines to say. You think about saying them, and then you decide not to say them." And that's kind of the best way to put it, you know, is that you're always about to say something, and then you don't say it, you know. - Absolutely. - I'm not stammering like this, like that. - No, I mean it's that's why I think that was such an interesting point. And when you know, as we're talking about lessons learned, the things you pick up, you know, you first worked with with Martin McDonagh 2012, Seven Psychopaths is 14 years ago. I'm curious, you know, how would you sort of yourself an actor then as an actor now, and what does any difference in the 14 years, you know, say to you about about the life as an actor? - 14 years since which one? Uh - Seven Psychopaths. - Jesus, really? Is it 14 years? - Unfortunately, unfortunately I'm checking the numbers here. That was 2012. - God, that's scary. That's frightening. Um yeah. Well, [clears throat] 14 years is a long time. [laughter] - [snorts] - Um yeah, I mean, so much you learn again from other actors, from directors and Martin and I have both matured. You know, I I don't think Martin and I could have made a movie like this. I mean, he made the movie, but I don't think I could have played a character like this even 5 years ago, let alone 14 years ago. Yeah. And same for Martin. I think that Martin's filmmaking has matured, you know, and he's got a great emotional depth. And it keeps getting deeper and deeper. Yeah. - I mean, I've seen I've seen you say you've seen John say people don't realize that, you know, the old acting is something that that with age you have more to pull from. You know, it it sounds like a young person's game, but it helps to fill that well with time, basically. And 14 years is a long time. Yeah. Um I am I am curious because, you know, this is a this is as I'm sure many people pointed out, this is a movie about a character who is choosing how and when he dies, where he bows out, you know, he's he's sort of looking at the end. I'm I'm curious if you've ever considered, thought about, you know, the ideal way that you the ideal way ideal role that you would like to go out on on your acting career, you know, how the ideal way for your acting career to end. - Jesus. Um Gosh, I don't know. I mean, I don't know if I want to play King Lear, I but uh I [snorts] don't know. That's that's a that's an interesting I mean, Willy Loman maybe someday, I don't know. Um it's hard to know, you know, you you you can't have uh you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans, you know? It's like there's no uh you can't really plan anything. It's really the the best The only word you have, you know, is to say no to something. You really don't You don't have control over the yeses as much. I mean, you do, but you know what I mean. It It just depends on what comes your way. - [snorts] - Absolutely. Yeah, and I'm sure, you know, actors they think about the end of their career a lot, but not in that way. In a way that they're like, I don't want their career to end. So Absolutely. I think I What I What I love, you know, this is throughout all of Martin's work, you know, there's that the the Catholicism that the There's a movie about regret, you know, there's a movie about dealing with the the things you've done in your life that you regret and what that means in in hindsight, all that stuff. And I'm curious, you know, I'm always curious to ask, you know, actors who've been doing this a while this. Whether there is a a particular regret in your career that also taught you a valuable lesson. Oh, man. Yeah. Well, I think the biggest thing is not to expend energy - [clears throat] - um on set or uh you know, you you save that energy. If you're frustrated, if you're having a hard day, you you should try to put it into the work. That That takes years to learn, you know. Because you can you can expend and waste a lot of creative energy. Um you know, being tired, being grumpy, whatever it is. And you could be putting in It's not even about being happy. You could be putting that energy into the work, you know? And that's that's more useful uh than to expend the energy doing something, you know, whatever. Complaining, for example. - Absolutely. I mean, it's it's a another common thread throughout all these conversations we've had with actors is basically like, don't be the problem. Don't Why Why be the problem on set? I think that's something that I mean, hopefully you don't have to learn that, but again - Oh, no, it's it's a good thing to learn. You got to You got It's true. That's a good way to put it. You want to be a problem solver, you know? Not be the problem. Exactly. - I love that. I I I want to ask because, you know, this is a movie that that particularly demonstrates it, but I think it it's something that has been apparent for a while is that you're someone that has uh tremendous range, you know, you you you you have you can operate in many different modes. In this case, even in the same movie. I am curious what the concept of range as an actor means to you and whether or not, you know, for actors watching this, whether having range is something you think uh you can learn. Yeah. - That's a good question. I think the only way to have range is to do theater and to play the great parts of this, you know, whatever parts you can get your hands on. You know. So, if it's Mercutio or Hamlet or Willy Loman or or, you know, Cherry Orchard, you [clears throat] know, uh I've gotten to play Stanley Kowalski. I did Zoo Story. I did The Dumb Waiter, you know, I I did Fool for Love. I did American Buffalo. So, you know, I think that uh I'm about [snorts] to do A View from the Bridge. Um in fact, I I was just thinking about your your name, Vinnie, you know, there's a there's a line, Vinnie Balzano. Vinnie Balzano, A View from the Bridge. So, you know, um that's the only way to really grow. It If you're If you're lucky enough like John and I to play lead roles in films, uh especially written by Martin McDonagh, you know, then that can stretch you as well. Film The lead roles in films can stretch you, but theater stretches you probably even more. Yeah. - I love that. As we sort of come to the end of our time here, the the the the through line, you know, things that you pick up from other people. I Working with John Malkovich, you know, I have to imagine is is quite the experience. I'm actually talking to him tomorrow. Very excited to talk to him. Um is there something that, you know, we we just said a lot of this is just sitting there watching him work. Is there something that you you took particularly from John the way he works, something he did that you are putting in the pocket and will to into the future? - Well, I've been you know, John's a hero to a lot of actors and I've I'm no exception and um watching him work and talking to him about acting when we're not goofing around with our friend Ben Schwartz um uh we he would sometimes talk about acting like surfing on a wave, you know? And that the the you have to trust the play. And I've talked to Richard Jenkins about this kind of stuff, too. And um you know, I think that that's uh that John has a trust and I think Laurie Metcalf has this, too. There's a trust that the wave is going to take you and you're going to ride the wave and let the play let the story sort of take you. And I And that's that takes what we call and Bill Esper used to call great actors faith, you know? And um that's the thing I take from John. Now, John's a very talented skillful man, you know, but I think that he trusts the story, you know? He trusts the story. - As we you know, right at the end here I'm curious. I've I've heard this this idea of you know, just having faith in the material, having faith in yourself, doing all the homework and so that you can play and and let it go. If you have one piece of advice for actors who are having trouble trusting the process, trusting the faith, what how do you how did you get over that hump of of just like having that actors faith? - Well, I'm still trying to figure it out be honest with you, but uh you know, it's a it's a constant learning curve and um I'm still I'm still learning, you know? Um - [snorts] - you know, John's a very special actor, you know? Um he's a he's kind of touched, you know? There's a there's a thing about him. He's very like and I I think you know, that's a that's a that's a rarity, you know? Phil Hoffman, Laurie Metcalf, Gene Hackman. I mean, they work hard at it, but it it it's it's a gift, you know, and I I keep I keep trying to figure out how to how to do this, and it's it's it's always challenging. Yeah. - Well, it's working so far. Uh this was an absolute pleasure. Thanks so much, Sam. Hopefully we'll talk again down the road. - Thanks a lot, man. - [music]