Justine Lupe and Timothy Simons for ‘Nobody Wants This’ | Conversations at the SAG-AFTRA Foundation

You can bring Justine your candy afterwards. I forgot that I was wearing this for a second. First of all, congratulations on this episode. That is so wonderful. I want to start because the two of you have such insane chemistry and always have on the show. Since this is a room of actors, I'm curious, when is the moment where you kind of know, oh, I have chemistry with this person and I'm going to be able to play with this? I don't know. That's a good question. I think for me there is sometimes – and look, I'm making this up in the moment. I think there is sometimes that when you meet somebody just very quickly, it feels like you're on the same wavelength and you kind of throw something at them and they're able to receive it and throw it back very quickly. There's like a shorthand that you didn't know you had because you've just met. I don't know if that's the best I can come up with in the moment. Do you have something better than that? No. I felt it pretty immediately with Jim though. I remember feeling that. I was pregnant at the time when we first started shooting and he was the first person that I told. We had a lot of mutual friends because there was a lot of crossover between Veep and Succession in the writer's room and with producers. So we sort of had – we had heard good – or at least I had heard good things about Justine. So I think there was like a sort of kinship there. But very quickly I did like that Justine was – it was like our first day on set and we were about to go do a take and she was like, oh, by the way, nobody knows yet. I'm pregnant. I haven't told anybody. I was like, oh, so she's very trusting right away. Well, of Tim. Tim, you give good vibes. Okay, cool. That's good. So I feel like you two have been asked – I mean I know I've asked both of you a thousand times in previous seasons like do you think they're going to get together? Do you want them to get together? And you must have been so sick of every interviewer and every journalist asking you that question. But I'm curious what it was like when you went back for this season and the producers were like, so here's what we have planned. I was really excited only because – I mean this question in the way that I felt about it has actually evolved between seasons. First season I was like absolutely no. I was like if the writers make me go there, like obviously I'm happy to do whatever they want. But I had my own personal feelings about it where I was like this is not – this transgression would be unfun and unfunny actually and that there's good chemistry here and that's exciting. And I liked that the fans felt that there was something there that felt compelling. But for them to actually have an affair felt like oh, that's actually not fun. Icky, icky. Yeah, and so it was only – and then the second season I kind of felt a similar thing but you kind of sensed the departure that Esther was going to make this move and depart the marriage and have her own exploration. And then finally this season when they were like, OK, she's starting to date someone and she is like the trial separation is over. We knew that before we knew that they were going to go to New York and have this moment with each other. And so by the time we got there, I was like, OK. I feel like it's kind of funny because you carry your own feelings about things into the work. At least I do. Sometimes I try to kind of keep like open to whatever the writers present. But anyway, by the time we got there, I was like, OK, I feel good. I feel like this is like now there's no transgression that's happening. Everything is kind of like up for like its open season kind of I was just excited personally because Tim is one of my best friends and we enjoy acting with each other so much and being around each other so much that I was like, oh, yeah, this is going to be so fun. Yeah, it is. You know, the second season, we had like a lot of fun stuff and I got to do a lot of scenes with Jackie. But because of the weirdness of season one and Esther being like, I'm going to shut that shit down. Like Justine and I didn't really get to do a lot of scenes together. So like the very first thing is like, oh, this is great. I get to do a lot of scenes with Justine. And I did like the idea of it when they told us because number one, it didn't feel like a transgression. It felt and it felt earned over the course of what ends up being two and a half seasons or a little bit over two and a half seasons. It actually felt earned. And at a certain point, I just think writing wise, if you don't address it, then it's just going to be kind of hanging there. And I liked that it was addressed. Yeah. I understand that the script was a little bit different and the two of you initially with episode seven. And so tell us about that and like what, because I think it speaks to so much that you two know your characters and how important it is for actors to know who they're playing and to advocate for them. Yeah, I think it also speaks to our writers being confident enough in their talent and in the process to let us give feedback because, you know, it feels like a very like collaborative and exciting set to be on in that regard. Basically, there were a couple of things. Tim has his own thing. Initially, it was going to be that they have this moment in New York and Morgan says something kind of like she says something like, I don't actually – oh, she goes on Bravo and he asks about who she – like if she's dating and she's like, no, I'm free, I'm open, and Sasha gets hurt and he leaves. Tim was like – Tim kind of advocated for it. Yeah, I sort of advocated for it and I brought it up early. And this was still very early on in the process, I think, while they were still outlining that it felt – because the show is about people maybe a little – like acting a little bit childish. Like there is an aspect of that. But I was also like – that it felt almost a little bit immature just like as a person who is an adult. It's like you're just going to – it felt for him as like a person who had been married, who has a kid, that it just felt like maybe a little bit immature for him. Morgan will take that on board. Yeah, and I think ultimately it did kind of work out because I wasn't even thinking about this, but there I think are some things that happen in the next few episodes that show a lot of maturity on both of their sides or some growth on both of their sides, and I think it ended up coinciding. Yeah, and then basically then what happened after that was they wanted Morgan to go back and be like, nothing happened. And like nothing happened, and that was like the end of it was that she's like, I'm over it, and she just moves on. And I remember going to Aaron and I was like – and that Tim was – and that Sasha is kind of upset by the whole thing. And I was kind of like, what if Morgan's carrying the flame? Like I do think that this is a different thing for her than she's ever experienced before, and she's obviously conflicted about it, but that like how interesting if this is the time after we've seen her kind of over and over again go towards things and then bail, if like he's the thing that makes her like walk into the fire and say like, actually I want to try it, and actually I want to change, and actually I want to do something different than I've ever done before. And I was like, that felt – it felt compelling to me. It felt also just like character development and that there's something special with him that we didn't experience with Dr. Andy and that clearly wasn't in her first marriage. And so I was like, why not have this be something that she actually like fights for? And like to their credit, the writers were like so open and they were excited by it, and they integrated it in. And I think I'm so lucky that they did because I feel like it drops into something. I'm like, I got to like have Morgan drop her mask for a moment instead of just being like, I don't care, which is kind of like her normal disposition. And also just to throw on that, like most people here are actors. We have a great circumstance in which we can talk to the writers and showrunners about this, and not every circumstance is like that. Taking advantage of it when you have that sort of relationship is great. I've also been on things where we're like, what about this? And they're like, oh no, we storyboarded this like three months ago. Like you're standing there and you say that. Go back to your trailer. Yeah, exactly. So having the ability to do that and having a relationship with the writers like that is incredible. One of the things I love about this episode, I mean, everything about it, like the setting, I mean, everything that happens, the Julia Roberts pretty woman, like all of it, it's just a dream of just a rom-com-y episode. I also have to say, your performances in this episode are so extraordinary, both of you. And even when you were talking about having that, letting Morgan take her mask down, there was something, I mean, you each did things in this episode that, I mean, obviously we've all seen you in other things also, so we know you're amazing, but that we haven't seen you do in these characters before. And it was so fulfilling as a viewer of the show. So when you get an episode like this, it's going to be, okay, you're going to, we're pushing you a little bit. I felt so grateful. I just felt so grateful. I like have never been given the opportunity to be the rom-com lead ever. That's just, I've always kind of been number 28 on the call sheet, or number four, or, you know, I've just never had that moment. And it felt like I was given this gift as someone who's grown up on Meg Ryan and Julia Roberts. And these movies are the movies when people ask me what movies I've turned to over and over, like that I could watch over and over again. There's not many. I'm not someone who like rewatches things over and over again, but the rom-coms are the ones that I grew up on and like aspired to. Like I wanted to have Meg Ryan's career. I just thought she was so effervescent. And I was like, this is actually like something that turns me on and lights me up. So it was really exciting. And I just remember being like, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for giving me this gift. And still today I'm sending texts to Aaron and Jenny and to Richard Shepard, who directed it, just saying like, I feel like this was one of the most special experiences of my life, let alone my like artistic or like my acting career. So, yeah, that's how I felt. And I would agree. It's one of the, I mean, like, again, like I've played a lot of supporting parts or I've been bigger supporting parts or whatever, but like, they were basically like we're going to give you one of 10 episodes. We only have 10 of them and we're going to let you guys carry one. And that's like, there is like, that's incredible. It's a, and I don't think either of us sort of took that lightly. And I think we really did try to make sure that we put as much work into it as possible to like, they gave us an opportunity. I don't think either one of us really wanted to fuck it up. And we were nervous. We were like, please, please don't let us look like two Muppets throwing bodies on each other. Like we really don't. We like, like, can you just make sure it doesn't just look like a mess of like limbs? We're limb forward. And like a week before we left, we were shooting part of the episode in LA and like a week before we left, we were like, Hey, so we should, we just block this. Like before we go, I know we don't know what the room looks like, but what if, what if we just want to make sure that it doesn't, it's like just a whole bunch of bones. I also do like that, that, that even in this like switch where all of a sudden we are the romantic leads of this show for one episode that it wasn't, they weren't asking us to like, all right, now go do this. It was still those two very specific weirdos doing their version of what romantic is, which I did enjoy. Yes, absolutely. Tim, I feel like there are moments of like when Sasha sees Morgan in the Valentino dress that I feel like there are people whose entire careers are spent doing those moments and you fricking like Sir Pat like in that and with no dialogue. I mean, it's just, it's, I mean, you both, I mean, in Justine, there's like a thousand moments. I mean, when she's sitting on the bed and like, like trying to decide what to do there, there are these really amazing dialogue free moments that you both have also, which is like, is that just a blast? Do you just feel like you know these characters so well that you don't need the line for me? I think like, I'm always trying to get out of my own head. I will say that. I just think that like, there's a lot, a lot amount of there's a large amount of trust with Justine as a performer. So there is like a comfort level there that is like, all right, I think, all right, this is a little bit of a risk. And I, again, like having never done it, you're always like, am I going to look like a fucking Muppet? Is this going to be stupid? But I have a large, a large amount of comfort and trust with Justine. So that made those things a lot easier. There was one line. Oh, God. There was one. There was one line where Tim has to. Is this okay? No, no. No, definitely. One line where we have to go like, hey, hey, hey, before we like almost kiss. And Tim was like, so I think he counted on it being not. I was like, they're going to cut this. They're going to cut this because it just reminded me of being like a fucking 22 year old and actually saying that and being like, oh, that's the worst thing anybody could ever say. That's the most fucking embarrassing moment of my life. And now I have to do it on television. I was like, they're going to cut it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to be so bad at it. They're going to cut it. And then there we were on the high line at like 4 a.m. And it hasn't been cut. And yeah. And I'm like, I cannot say enough good words about Tim and his acting and his availability and how much I love him. And we got to, hey. And Tim was like a concrete wall. It was like I ran into like Tim was like, and I'm actually zapped onto planet X for that. Like it was like, he's gone. He's gone. He's actually gone. Justine was like, well, shit, I guess I have to do something. And then was like, hey, I was like, I'm going to have to over overdo this. And really like it wasn't without its hiccups. But that was literally the only moment, I think, in three seasons of working with Tim where I was like, wow, he is struggling. How do you in those moments, how do you get out of your head? I don't know that I did. I don't know that I did. Because they got a good take. It looks. That's the thing. Movie magic, baby. I was telling him I was like, and I did feel that. And that's the truth of it. And also, when I watched it, I was like, I buy it. I like it. It didn't feel like that. So. And honestly, I was like, maybe they'll cut it in the edit. And they did just praying to the last moment. It's like every step of the way. God, don't make me go back to my 23 year old. So, well, that's the thing you see actually did say hey to someone when he was about to kiss them when he was younger. And I feel like the trauma of that moment. I love that you remember that you said it though. Oh, yeah. How can you forget something that terrible? How can you not live with that shame for the rest of your life? I think that this season, because it's the third season and the writers got to know you both and your characters so much. And I feel like it's been so interesting because you can tell they love writing for you. It's just because you, you can kind of tell that like in, in season one, they were like, oh, we need to write more for them because you see this, this evolution over the seasons. And I feel like you both have had that in your careers. I mean, I know in succession, like Willow wasn't supposed to be who will it became. And which is a credit to your talent. I can only assume that Jonah that like on Veep, they were like more, more, we need like a punching bag more, more. But what is that? What does that feel like? And do you have a sense when the, when the writers are like getting you and writing for what they know that you're capable of doing? I feel like with Willow, I just remember just being like, don't move. Like when they kept on, when they kept on like keeping her around, I just remember like, do not draw attention to the fact that you're not supposed to be here anymore. Like, I was like, we're not talking about it. We're just going to like fly under the radar and be like, maybe they forgot. Maybe they forgot. She was like out after. Oh, you were supposed to be wrapped like eight hours ago. And you're like, yeah, that was on purpose. I was hanging out by craft. Um, but yeah, no, it is. I don't even remember what the question was. I had, that's how it felt. And then what was the second part? Just what, what is it? Like when you can kind of tell that the writers see what you're capable of. I mean, it's great. It feels so nice. I mean, it's so nice. It's like, yeah, there is, it is. I will always say like, it's, it's, it's really nice when he, like with, with Jonah was, was all, he was always a part of the show, but initially it was always like, I come in at the beginning and say, Hey guy, go, go guys, go, please go do this. And I would do it. And at the end I come back and I say, Oh, you guys fuck that up. And, and, and I think, uh, I was sort of the beneficiary of like when they got sick of writing about policy, they were like, well, that idiot could do something. And, and it just, and it did, it definitely grew. And I'm always really, it's always really flattering when, especially in this show, when they start writing, because we are like, you know, like you look at like character tropes, we are like the supporting characters in a romantic comedy. And usually they come in and they do one bit for the entire movie that is truly only there to support the main characters relationship. And just by nature of the fact that we are doing five hours a year, like they're like, Oh, we have to get them to do something too. And that sort of led to them writing, I think stuff for both of us. It's like, Oh, this wouldn't be the clearest thing, but we think you can do this, or we trust you. We're going to write something a little bit different for you. And we're just going to trust that you can do that, which is incredibly flattering when it happens, because all performers want that. Totally. I also try not to take it too personally. Like Succession, I feel like they are British. They're in service of the, they're in service of the script always. And the story always. So I saw like incredible actors like come in and then go, because it was like, actually we care so much about what the story is. And I'm assuming that Veep was kind of similar. So I think that it's like less personal and being like, Justine's an amazing actress. We've got to give her more. And it's more just like, that's what I think it was. I really don't. I really know Jesse Armstrong well enough to be like, I really do feel like they're just like, this is what's necessary. This is what we, and also like, and also to an extent, like Will is never going to be the star of that show. No matter how good I did, because Will is not that it's about the family. Like they really are. They, there was such integrity to that process that I don't think that it, they were like, I think they caught on to things that they, you were seeing. And so when they did put you in stuff that was servicing the story, they really knew how to like tap into like something that they were seeing. Like there was a story about like Jay Smith, Cameron and Kieran checking each other out at one point. And Jesse like saw it and was like, Ooh, I'm going to blow that up and like make these two like have a whole thing. So like, there's that part of it, but also I think that they're just in service to the story. And then Tim is saying about nobody wants this. I mean, I don't mean to just like totally discredit this idea that they're excited by our town, but I do feel like also in order to keep a rom-com alive for three seasons, you kind of have to open it up and start playing with other characters, you know, not to, do you feel like there have been moments as actors that you have felt like, Oh, I thought I knew this character and then something shifts and you're like, Oh, I think I understand them in a different way now, even seasons into playing someone. Yeah. I remember when I watched Morgan, it was in watching the show back. I didn't even get it really until I watched it, which is kind of a weird experience. But after season two in the last episode where she's talking about like having to get back on the apps, for some reason it hit me in a different way than when I was playing it because Morgan's not someone who's like thinking about her own circumstances and the way that you might be from, she's like a, she's kind of a survivor and she's kind of scrappy and she just keeps on going. But watching from the outside, it hit me emotionally that this is a woman who's presumably 37 years old, has not found it, has been out of a divorce, tried again desperately with someone who's like ill fit for the job because she's just like kind of in a wreck over her sister departing their relationship. And now she's like almost third, almost 40 and hasn't found it yet. And I have so many friends who are in that circumstance. And I think there was just the moment where she said, well, I guess I'll just get back on the apps again. That hit me in a different way. They hit me in a different way, watching it back where I was like, Oh, this woman, she's going through something quite difficult that I like interpersonally understand because of my proximity to people who are going through this exact thing. And it's like real shit. So I think that hit me in a, it surprised me in a different way. And I think I did carry that into this season after witnessing it as an audience member season two. So it's going to be a little bit of a spoiler. If you haven't seen episode eight for that, I'm sorry. But the episode eight is sort of about Morgan taking off and, and Sasha being upset about that. And they're not really seeing each other and they do kind of come back together. And Morgan says the whole thing about like, I want to try to make this work. And Sasha says, no, like it might not be, it might be the right thing, but it is clearly the wrong time. And it's not just because of you. It's because I've just gotten out of a divorce and my life has kind of fallen apart. And, and there was, and I don't even think I realized this again until I, until I watched the season in prep for like all the running around, talking about it, that there was a certain amount of maturity in that decision that I don't think Sasha would have been capable of before. I do kind of think that he has always like tried for again, for my size. It's very funny to think of him trying to like, not be seen like, like Justine on the succession set. Like, you know, I think, you know, his mom has always clearly had a favorite child. So it was like, even his relationship with Esther, trying to like, just not do the wrong thing, not get in trouble. I'm going to go along with everything. I'm never going to really stand up for myself. He works for his dad's business that this might be the first time he's like made an uncomfortable decision. And so I thought that there was a lot of maturity in that. But again, I don't know that I realized that when we were doing it, I just realized it when we were watching it. Yeah. I was, I saw something online where the, the moment with the, will you make me into a taco in this episode? And someone wrote, that is the single most romantic thing I've ever seen in my entire life. Was that in the script? Did you improvise that? It's so cute. That was in the script. I think it was Megan. Our writer had a, either, I think a previous relationship where that was something they would do when she was feeling like anxious or whatever. It was just like a really nice thing that they did. And she wrote it in. I mean, like, I think like all great. I remember hearing Mandel who was the showrunner of Seinfeld, like whenever, I'm sorry, the showrunner of V, but who had worked on Seinfeld, when people would come in and pitch stories, they always knew which one was real. Cause it was the weirdest one. And I think there is like, that feels, I think that feels to people the way you feel about it, because it was like a real thing. It was like a real romantic thing that came from her life. Yeah. Meg is really good with those details. She's also the one who came up with the lion King, like the whole story about the X and the lion King. And, and at one point, remember they wanted to cut it. They wanted to cut that whole thing. And I was like, please, we got it. Cause it is like, it is no offense. It's like, so weird. If a grownup wants to go see the lion King with like, with no children. And I'm saying, I will go see the lion King. I think it's great, but it's like an adult man. That seems like, no, honey, we're going to see the lion King. Like that is like a very specific kind of weird thing. The specificity of her getting like jealous of the waitress and like the fighting on the street after the lion King and like screaming at each other. I was just like, this is, it's so, it's like one paragraph that so explains the type of thing that she was in and what she's working to try and be in a departure from. And I also, I feel really bad if anybody here likes the lion King. That was not my intent. I just, I think maybe just for those specific people, I was judgmental about it, but I just, again, I'm sorry if that's a thing. Are we ever going to meet Morgan's ex-husband? You know, there was like a flicker of him in a draft this season. Oh yeah. Yeah. Um, and I was kind of like, Ooh, I'm so curious who they're going to hire. I don't know. I mean, maybe, maybe that's something that, I mean, it'd be interesting. It'd be sick if it was Jeff Goldblum. I just think that's always the perfect casting or it's like, Oh, we ever going to see that person? It's like, yeah, it's Jeff Goldblum. That'd be sick. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in your mind when you're, when you're playing someone, you know that there's this character that's sort of like still that she's working through. Do you have an image of someone in your mind? I mean, I, I had like a Russell brand type guy. Oh, just in case there are any Russell brand fans here. I didn't mean to say so loud. I'm just thinking like pre conspiracy, like, but like get them to the Greek kind of like this guy who's got like a bit of just, just, just unhinged, unbridled, like smart, but toxic and, um, kind of rock and roll, sexy kind of thing. I mean, I don't personally find Russell brand. Like that's not my, but I kind of can see Morgan drawn to something like some guy, a guy like that in her twenties. Yeah. Um, last question. What is your single favorite moment of this episode? I think for me, it is the last, it's the last, uh, sequence. Um, I mean, so much of it was fun. Like the running around on the streets and Soho was really fun. That was also just like a great day, but like the, like that last sequence, I just, you know, so much of our, like we shoot really fast and, and very rarely do we have like time to take swings on, on oneers like that. And Richard Shepard, our director who was in, who is incredible and has directed like incredible episodes of, uh, of a bunch of stuff, including like some of my favorite episodes of girls. Like he was very committed to that, just all being in one. And we just very rarely get to do that kind of thing. And so like, just the actual process of doing it was really fun. The process of figuring it out was really fun. Um, Tim loves kissing me. No, no, no, um, no, that was, I think that was my, that was, I think because of the anxiety that we were talking about earlier, it felt like this kind a, it was a, it, the time that it took was kind of exciting. I felt the same way about the, the, the skyline, like that they gave it time that they didn't try and condense it into the thing that, that there were like long, there were like kind of long conversations. I loved that. And then I, and then it was earnest that there wasn't bits like these people are actually talking to each other. And, and then I thought that the kissing was really fun, just honestly, because it was the, the back and forth was really great, but also we were so nervous about the kiss. And when we finally kiss, we're in this hotel and like the whole floor of the hotel is taken up by the crew and, and everyone. And, and we kissed and you can hear crowds of the entire crew just going, like all through the hotel, like hallways. And there was something about that. That was like, I, it was, I think it's also just cause they've lived with us. There are friends. They like also I'm sure knew that we were, we were nervy about how it would come off and it does look romantic. And I think that they were all just like, yay, they pulled it off. And also yay, Sasha and Morgan finally kissed. And it was just like a fun moment of like solidarity and excitement between us and the crew. And also it's a big moment. Like, you know, like they planned this whole thing. We're going to give you one of 10 episodes. Like, what if we get there? And they're like, Oh fuck, it looks weird when they kiss. So that is truly that was a possibility. So when we heard that, it was like, all right, cool. Also, it was interesting for me as Tim's scene partner, like he's truly like my brother. We hang out all the time. I'm very close with his wife. He's very close with my husband. I have been thinking about doing brotherly bits to throw Justine off this entire time. Like, what can I do? That's going to do it. Like, so we were like the entire time, every time we would get to the point where we kiss, I would just like, get like giggly and weird and like be like, and, and afterwards we were thinking about it and he was like, what is going on? There was one point where I literally cut the scene for us. Like, we would like go out of frame onto the bed and they didn't call cut. And we were just like kissing on the bed. And I was like, cut, cut, cut, cut. But I was like, what was it that made me feel like that? And it's because like Tim put me on my back foot because Tim was hot. Like Tim came in with like a hot sexual energy and like me as Justine, his friend was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And he had his friend like present this thing that I actually hadn't seen from him before. It's not my general vibe walking around, but it's in there somewhere. He's sexy in that moment. And, and it was kind of like, it was kind of confronting and kind of amazing and kind of exciting as his pal to be like, whoa, you like actually made me like uncomfortable with how hot you were. That was kind of fun too. That's literally the best story ever. I love that so much. This episode is amazing. I know why the crew was clapping. Like there's so many moments that I just felt like, oh, my heart went as I was watching it. And, and I know that this room did as well. So congratulations, both of you on this season, on this incredible episode, Timothy Simons, Justine loop. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you guys. Thank you for coming out on a Sunday. We appreciate it.