Using Online Platforms to Fund and Finance Your Film | The Business | SAG-AFTRA Foundation

First off, I'd love to start with going down the line and if you could all explain top line, you know, maybe as simply as you can sort of what your platform is like and how your platform helps filmmakers raise money for their projects. I'm happy to kick it off. So GoFundMe is a 16-year-old company and it powers community-funded ideas. So it really started actually more centered around non-profits and as you can imagine and I'm sure as you've seen it's really exploded and grown from there to it's really funding anything that you can think of. And so the way in which we work with creators and directors and filmmakers and project leads is really helping to bring their ideas to life and the platform is free to use. We don't take any fees. It's the transaction fees that come out of it which are just simply the same as running a credit card anywhere else. But otherwise we are funded completely by optional tips. The other piece that we think is great for creators to know is you don't have to hit any milestones before you can start receiving funds. So what we actually recommend is start with smaller tangible goals and then you can go up from there. You can move the goal at any time. But we found that for donors really starting with something very specific of not just help me fund this movie but $10,000 will help us with three days of production. So be really as specific as you can and we found that that is really, really helpful for donors to see as you then also sort of take them along in the process of which the updates feature that we offer is really critical to building that audience but keeping people up to date. So definitely don't just stand up the fundraiser and see what it's going to do. It really is, as I mentioned, it's community powered so it does have to be part of a broader strategy and you really need to focus on making sure that you're raising that awareness around it. So Slated was launched in 2012. It is a professionals-based feature film only platform. We have 2,300 investor companies around the world. I approve about 1 in 10 investor companies. We get applications every day. It is a very different model. It's actually not a crowdfunding model at all. It is a feature film finance hub and so we launched the feature film finance group where we actually are involved in hand-selecting the best films. Ten years ago, our team is working on our 73rd feature now. We've had a number one movie in America open. We've had independent spirit nominations and the movies that we're doing now actually are bigger and bigger. So the thing that really applies to kind of helping people along is that we have cutting edge analytics. Our analytics were launched in 2015 and they were far ahead of their time. We ended up doing what was known as machine learning and now is known as AI everywhere in the world eight years ago. So for novices and people that are working in the feature space for the first time, you have the ability to get your script analyzed to potentially input talent and run that through the algorithms to discover what's the best budget, what's the best release plan. All of that stuff is ultra cutting edge and was way ahead of its time. But I think that really we are a community. We've got 91,000 members and I think that we're just dedicated to making the best films possible all of the time. Hell yeah. Hi. I am representing Seed&Spark. We are the number one crowdfunding and creator education platform for indie film and TV. So we are very specifically focused on filmmakers. Tons of short films come through our platform. We've been around for 15 years, I believe. If you submit to Seed&Spark, every single campaign gets free personalized feedback. The main thing that we specialize in is really educating creators on how to crowdfund successfully. The result of that is that we have the highest success rate in the world for crowdfunding at 80%. So literally if you submit, myself or my one colleague Rocco, who I trained personally, gives you feedback on your pitch video, your story, your rewards, your outreach strategy if you're funding for a larger goal. Because we really just want to educate and teach you how to do it and then provide the resources and the tools you need to do it to create some sustainable independence in this industry, which is very much needed. We do over 100 workshops every year trying to reach markets all over the country, not just LA and New York. We host Creative Sustainability Summits where we do all-day education on crowdfunding and distribution, panels from industry leaders and creatives that give insight into how they're making ends meet and what they're doing. We've been to Nashville and Atlanta this year, Buffalo. We're doing one here in LA in December, on December 4th. Please come. We also have, what am I forgetting, oh yeah, Patron Circle Fund. We have a program that is micro-grants underwritten by industry titans in order to bring funding and momentum directly to filmmakers. So everyone that crowdfunds with us is automatically considered for that. That means Mark Duplass, Ray Romano, Nick Kroll, Emily V. Gordon and Kumail Nanjiani, Jason Reitman. They've given us money to go directly to indie filmmakers of shorts, features, whatever you're making, of specific genres or types that they're looking to support. So we have that. We think about the whole ecosystem of audience building to distribution, right? So we know crowdfunding is a really powerful tool that's not just something to be a one-off. We teach you how to do it for the sustainability of your career so that you can return to do it again. Or you can tap into that audience that you're going to build when you do do it for distribution of that film. Am I forgetting something? Oh yes. So on that note, we have a partnership with Kinema so that you can self-distribute your own film. You get a discount just for using Seed&Spark. And oh yeah, we have some, sorry, am I rambling? I've just got a lot to say. Oh, it's great. We have free online resources is like our big thing. So we launched the Crowdfunding Playbook last year, which is everything you need to know about how to do crowdfunding successfully from audience building all the way through teeing you up for distribution. And then we have another playbook called the Distribution Playbook so that you are as empowered as possible with all the information, the tools, the resources to navigate this hellscape. I would love if you all could break down with, I'm curious if it varies platform to platform. What does a timeline look like of a filmmaker starting their fundraising or they're, you know, receiving funds from investors? What does that timeline look like from start to they've got their funds and they're making the thing? Well, for us specifically, I mean, because we support all types of projects, right? You have your longer features, but then we also have short filmmakers on the platform. We have cartoonists. So it really just does depend on the project. The other piece too is where we come into their project journey. So some folks start from the very beginning of, hey, I have this idea and this is where I want to go to. I've captured everything and I'm in post-production and that's where I need the funding support is in the marketing or in the process of finalizing. So it really does absolutely depend on the project itself. I would say the piece that we sort of look for and the team that I oversee, which is our comms team, and we are constantly reviewing the fundraisers on the platform for news opportunities. So what we're really looking forward to are those moments when we can set up interviews with reporters in regional markets and national reporters to then talk about the project. And that really kind of becomes such a key piece because if you're in the middle of something and you need to get that sort of last piece to get you to finalizing, those media interviews can really make such a difference of just being able to talk to reporters about your individual project. And then when those run and they include the fundraiser link, we've seen those donations come in as a result. But the overall timeline really does depend on the project itself. You gave me the look. It's my turn. Okay, yeah, a killer campaign timeline. Let's hit it. So the crowdfunding playbook, which I mentioned, walks you through crowdfunding every step of the way. It's organized in a timeline manner. So starting today, I would just like go work through it. But the rundown is audience building starts yesterday. That's something that is evergreen, a process that you should be intentionally doing all the time. It goes hand in hand with successful crowdfunding, right? Like the more audience you have, the bigger your crowdfunding reach. Crowdfunding campaigns, successful ones when you do it right, are made up of many smaller contributions rather than fewer big contributions, right? So the more audience building you do starting now, the better. Six to eight weeks before you launch your campaign is when you want to start really digging into the work of everything. So just like you wouldn't show up to set without a plan, right? You do pre-production. You're doing pre-production for the crowdfunding process. So you're building an outreach strategy, a communication schedule, assets. There's tons of assets involved. Organizing your audience into an email list, emails, and writing to people one-on-one is so effective in crowdfunding compared to social media, even though social media is still a great tool. What else? Gathering your team. Friends don't let friends crowdfund alone. It's a lot of work. It's a full-time job. Yeah. No. Establishing partnerships. If you partner up with people who, organizations or brands that care about the same thing your film is about, that exponentially grows your audience. So all this work at least six to eight weeks before you intend to launch. Then there's a month before you launch. You want to do early outreach. It's a myth that you launch and momentum starts. You want to launch your campaign at the crest of momentum. When people are really excited about what you're making. So a lot of early outreach and excitement building your marketing campaign, all of that good stuff. Three weeks before you intend to launch, you submit to Seed&Spark so that you can get the most out of our feedback process. It gives us time to really give you personalized recommendations about what you can change about your materials to make them more effective based on crowdfunding data that we've studied for over 15 years. Because when you apply those best practices in good faith, you end up being more successful. And then we recommend when you do launch, it's a 30 day campaign. The longer you campaign, the more exhausting it is, the harder it is to maintain momentum. The psychology of momentum is so important in crowdfunding. It is a short sprint of hard work. And just like with anything else in life, the announcement, the launch is really exciting. You'll see a lot of natural momentum then. And the close, the deadline is also something that triggers people to take action. So all those in between the two weeks, two to three, that's you creating momentum of your own through various techniques. And then after that, part of the timeline I still consider is delivering on your promises. So something I forgot to say earlier is we're not a keep whatever you raise platform. We are a green light platform. The green light mark is 80 percent. You have to raise at least 80 percent of your goal in order to take home funds because we want you to actually make your film. And that's most of what your goal is. So you should be setting a responsible crowdfunding goal for what you actually need to make your film. It holds you accountable. Nothing is worse for your relationship with your audience. Then I don't know, let's say you raise 20 percent of what you actually need to make a film. You take home that money and then you can't make the film and then you can't deliver the film. And then you have this sick, disgusting feeling in your belly about how you owe a film to all these people who supported you. But you didn't have enough money to make the film. No. So it's an ethical agreement between you and your audience because audience building is truly the most important aspect of this whole thing. So your relationship with those people who are joining your journey of making this thing come to life is crucial, which is why we have that 80 percent mark. Timeline, timeline. So yeah, afterwards you're delivering on the rewards. You are staying in contact with folks forever about things. And then you go over to the distribution playbook and you do that whole thing. Yeah. That's my spiel. So again, I think I'm coming at it from a slightly different place. Making a movie takes years. Conceiving of it takes years. Getting it out takes years. Collecting money takes years. It's a long process. So I don't think in terms of 30 days, more or less, ever. But I will say that the best time for a feature to raise money, there are two windows. Right before and right after. Not so much during production because people are nervous about why you need money if you're already shooting. But right before there's an actual deadline. And then when you're in post, now you have something you can actually show people or market depending on where you are. So we've actually sold a movie based on four stills and a screenplay to a studio. And that was a really successful venture. And I think that the feature film world is so much slower than people realize going in. Especially the monetization cycle. We used to tell people that it was a three-year monetization cycle because we were working exclusively on bonded films. And most of those films had larger distribution where the waterfall was fairly set. Ultimately, now we're saying five years. COVID really changed everything in terms of the cycle. It just made it that much harder for smaller movies because there are more of them, which doesn't make a lot of sense. If you think about it, there was this sort of lag that took place. And now there's just this enormous wave of content. And so it's more competitive than it's ever been. Sort of right at the bottom tier of the professional level. But I think all of the process is just a much, much slower, more thoughtful process where it's how do you find a path? And a lot of that has to do with casting. It has to do with knowing what distributors want. It has to do with knowing what good directing is, which is a big thing. But ultimately, it's all very, very slow. It's much slower than people realize going in. I worked on a movie once for 10 years. And it was very successful. And that was a long time ago. And I don't think much about it now. But at the time, it felt like it was taking forever. And it was. But then suddenly, you have a film. And the film lives on. And I think that's why it all matters in the end is that if you make a really good movie, it lives forever. And so that's really the goal in terms of how we're trying to attack the process. When people come to the Slated platform, I do think we're trying to tell them, basically, don't have crazy expectations. You're up against the best in the independent film community in the world. You're playing against the best players. You need to raise your game. And so that's where for us, we launched the analytics to give people that were coming out of nowhere a chance to do that. And now the world is much more analytics heavy. But ultimately, we just feel like it's possible to train yourself to become good enough. And it's really, really hard work. And it's very intense. And ultimately, the platform is designed to service the whole world. But there's already a glut. There's already a massive glut of content in Europe. There's a massive glut of content in Africa. People don't know how much content there is outside of the US. There's enormous layer upon layer upon layer. And so you really need to keep rewriting. Really think about what is the path. Does the budget make sense? How many days are you shooting versus your budget? I mean, there's so many variables that part of it is it's hard to learn. And it's a very obscure process. The one thing that we talked about a few minutes ago is that there's just not enough education about how things really work. And there's not enough support. So those resources are super, super helpful. I got to tell you, I'm super impressed. Me too. Yeah, absolutely. I'm like, I'll go read that after this for sure. For you all, do you see filmmakers use platforms in conjunction? Or do you see filmmakers sort of use your platform for maybe one part of production and then they use a different platform for something else? Or do you kind of encourage them to think of one platform, really focus in and zero in and put not their eggs in one basket, but sort of not try to play the huge field of it all? What do you see out there? Well, if you're running a crowdfunding campaign, you want to – well, on our platform, if you're running one with us, you can't be running one simultaneously elsewhere. It's also because you're more likely to fail that way simply because you're diluting your efforts. People will be confused about where they're supposed to be giving you their money. So just in that crowdfunding sense, you want to have one location for those monies to be coming in and for your effort to be putting out. But in terms of jumping over to other platforms, yeah, I've seen it. But I've also seen a lot of people come to our platform from others because they've failed and are seeking that education and human touch. That's mainly the thing that pulls people over. I talk to creators. I like to interview three to five successful creators at the end of every quarter because I'm like, hey, what went right? And by and large, everyone is just like, yeah, I needed you to hold my hand through this. And so I think people are really craving that sort of the human touch aspect of this. That's what I'm observing from where I'm standing. We actually encourage it to be part of a mosaic. We found that on the platform, right, the more specific you can be about the ask is where you have the greater success. Right. So I mentioned, you know, again, in the up front, not just help me fund this movie, like ten thousand dollars will get us X. So when we consider it as part of a bigger piece of creating the project, that is also the platform allows you to then also add offline donations. So if you do have outside investors that say, you know, funded another way or say that they are perhaps matching, that can be reflected in the total on the fundraiser as an offline donation. But then it shows that you are having that continued momentum on the fundraiser itself. So that's sort of a way that we coach folks or, you know, give them that opportunity to then also show where that impact is happening in other places. But it can still appear on the GoFundMe fundraiser. But, yeah, we really do consider ourselves to be strongest when we are part of a bigger plan rather than just sort of the everything here. Yeah, I think GoFundMe is a great reputation for kind of being able to diversify throughout all kinds of different campaigns and all kinds of different needs and meet needs and have a real personal touch. That's what I've observed. I don't you know, I'm not an expert on it. But, you know, again, I think our our universe, there are others that that are film finance related. They are not they're not they're not as orderly, I think, and they're not really making a lot of sort of high end stuff, if you will. And so I think that when it comes to the universe of building financing, there are more resources than existed 15 years ago, to be clear. And, you know, in my view, there should be more still there in the world that I'm in every day. There is never enough money for what's out there. It's not even close. And the investors are besieged. People hit me up for money all day long, more or less seven days a week. And, you know, we have our own things that we're doing. And so to understand that there's this massive, massive need and that's with super high end cast or, you know, imagine how hard it is there. The numbers are really, really stark in Europe. Almost no first directors make a second film. I can't remember what the exact percentage is, but it's it's well below 50 percent. It's a very hard universe. And I think that the more the merrier. Right. And so, you know, I think when is sort of a tactical question that I think depends on the details. In your opinion, what is the most underutilized resource on your platform? With filmmakers, I'm just going to start because it's definitely the analytics. It's definitely the script analysis because our script readers are all human. There's this wave of A.I. based nonsense script coverage that is trying to take over the whole industry. And it's kind of horrifying because, you know, computers can't really watch films in the same way that people can or experience emotion. And so, you know, we're we have this amazing track record where we had 15 movies in a row that were certified fresh and run to it or sorry, fresh via Rotten Tomatoes. And and, you know, we have this ability to actually tell a filmmaker whether there's their material is likely to do well critically. And that is unmatched. There is no comparison. There's no competitor out there. And literally at this moment, you know, the sort of gates are crashing because the machines are taking over. And and so that would definitely be easy for me to answer. Yeah. The A.I. thing just reminded me that we did a study on failed campaigns this year. We were like we could just like want to crack open the data, look at these projects, like possibly see if there's any correlation between like what's making people fail so that we could educate better and harder. Forty percent of failed campaigns had some A.I. fingerprint because humans connect to humans like audiences want to support people and creators. So that just made me think of that. But in terms of. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. And in terms of like underutilized features on our platform. OK. One, the wish list loan feature. So because we built the platform initially with filmmakers in mind and it's not just filmmakers that use a platform, it's creatives of any kind, by the way. But this is because we know filmmakers especially don't just crowdfund, they crowdsource. It's not just the money you raise. It's what the money makes possible. So, you know, maybe there's a specific thing that somebody could give you for your production rather than money. They give it to you in kind. We allow you through the loan feature to accept that and put a numerical value to that. So, you know, if I'm like, hey, I will give you my camera for use of this for your production. Oh, that's worth a lot of money. So click on the item in my wish list, which is like a wedding registry for everything that you need for your production. And I will say how much that is and I'll count towards your goal tracker. So that is an underutilized secret weapon of the platform. And then the update feature, which is a like a blog, like a blog for your campaign that lives on your campaign page. But when you post one, it goes directly to the emails of all of your followers and supporters. So we like did a study on that and campaigns that send them out regularly are like three times more likely to succeed. So just that like communication factor with your audience, like directly staying in touch that way is really helpful. Yeah, I would definitely second. So updates, updates, updates like we can't really hammer that home enough. Right. Because it is exactly as you said, that's how the people develop a human connection with you. Right. That's how they know that it's a real person behind this fundraiser that was stood up and not just sort of the name and moniker. And within those updates, we also very much encourage photos, videos, sort of whatever's going on in that real time. Again, making that human connection so that they understand there are people behind the project. The other piece that we and it's the the folks that are adopting it. This is growing because we just introduced it earlier in the year. But we have a managed coach that you can opt in to use, which is not specific to film or creative project fundraisers. But it is how to help you fundraise. So it is constantly giving you the tips, the steps, when to share. If you opt into the SMS coaching, it will send you text messages of did you share your fundraiser today? It's giving you the tips also on when you share it, that you're not just sending it out as a lone link or that you're sending the exact same language every time you send it. It's helping you really kind of developed and craft that plan. But it is keeping you on sort of timely milestones. Right. We definitely say within the first seven days of launching, you should share no less than sort of three to five times is our recommendation within that period. And that those are things that the coach is helping people do because. Right. As we said, like fundraising is not, you know, something that everyone sort of understands. There is an art to it and that folks every day are just not really necessarily thinking of. The third, I would say, is the thank you feature and actually sending direct thank you notes to donors. I would say that's pretty underutilized on the platform itself. And then our our share feature, we've really grown it out extensively. And I wanted to just hammer home again on that one to one sharing, because, yes, getting it out on social media is important. But we really are finding that it's that one to one sending you the text message. Hey, this project matters to me and this is why and sending them that direct link. It's really hard for people to say no in those instances. And in fact, we're finding that it's bringing five times the number of people to the fundraiser. And that's converting to a 20 percent increase in donations just when you're sharing it one to one via text, via WhatsApp, via personal email. So really making sure that people understand, hey, I'm Lee. This is what matters to me. Make them an offer they can't refuse. And very rarely can they really say no, even if it's just those smaller dollar donations. The other piece that comes from that, too, is even if they're not necessarily in a place to give, asking them to share it out makes such a huge impact in terms of widening your audience. And it can sometimes have the same direct impact and donations as if they had donated themselves. So even asking people for a share is so critical within that process. But I would say those are really the underutilized features on the platform. Those are great. No, it's just like, yeah, hell yeah. I'm learning things about y'all. I'm like, we should talk because we should collab. I want to say one more thing. When you said the management coach, I didn't know you guys did that. And that's pretty sick. We just. Yeah. We also send out like those kind of like journey tracking as you go through education. Crucial points. And also creator office hours. You could sit with me on Zoom for an hour every two weeks. That's another underutilized tool. You're all invited. I love that. Do you all see a sort of common level of filmmaker using your platforms like student work first time? Maybe, you know, with slated like people who have come from the studio system and are like, you know, I'm going to go do this path instead. I'm curious if there's like a kind of group that you're seeing most commonly. We definitely have the people that are coming to us after they've gotten stuff done elsewhere. Yes, there are a lot of older people that are trying to figure out how does it all fit together because there's been so much change. And, you know, I think we're a completely do it yourself, independent, focused universe. And a lot of people kind of didn't realize that they were aspiring to work for a specific type of corporation. And a lot of film distribution is big corporate distribution. And we're occasionally in that world. And that world can be great. That world is a great world to reach the largest possible audience around the world. So it's not to be discounted. Right. But I think that there is with all of the tools that exist. And, you know, I think that this latest sort of wave of like, what does it mean if you're a short filmmaker and you built a franchise on YouTube and now the studios knock on your door? Like, this is a very significant period in history in terms of people using the tools that are more affordable and they're more ready and they're at hand. And and so how does that all fit together? I mean, it's a lot of different types of change happening at the same time. Right. So you had a previous period of change, which was the streaming era, then covid and now sort of this aftermath and two studios becoming one again. Like it happened with Disney and Fox and now it's happening with Warner and Paramount and all this consolidation. And there's like this tiny little counterrevolution happening and all of it is do it yourself and it can extend all the way through. You can distribute your own movie if you want. Right. Like you can make it. You can shoot it. You can put it out or you can use a small distributor and they have certain built in tools that and they'll do some of that for you. You know, we release a small number of films because it's something that is informative to us. We love these films. It's a total hodgepodge of high quality films from all over the world. It's just part of do it yourself. It's just part of that mentality of this deserves to be seen. Let's put it out ourselves. Right. If they don't have distribution today, that's a great thing for us because we love it. You know, it's that kind of mentality. But there's such an opportunity now that exists to completely just set your own path. And if it's good enough, people will find you for sure. Now, the only thing about it is that you're also in this very noisy world. Right. Like everyone's making a gazillion videos every day and posting online. So it's very hard to sort of be in this channel of quality work and get noticed. And I think that we've talked a little bit about sort of building awareness. But again, that's not really our expertise. So I will hand it over. No, but everything you're saying is true that the DIY mentality is really the thing that's going to future proof your career, no matter like what kind of distribution pathway opens up for you, whether it's a more traditional one or if it's a self distribution pathway, like the audience building work that you do that makes crowdfunding campaign successful is the same work that's going to set you up for success. In those conversations, like there's nothing a distributor would love more than to know that you have 10,000. You've identified your audience. You have 10,000 of them. You have the audience data connected to them directly. You know exactly who they are, where they are, where they hang out, where they like to get their information from, what brands they care about. Because you've built those connections yourself, like you're handing them their job, basically. So you really got to use your elbow grease budget to do the audience building to the best of your own ability. That will then kind of fortify all the other stuff that comes later. With each of these platforms, do you see filmmakers sort of, I guess I want to get into the part of conversation of like, what do you see are the traps of filmmakers coming on too early with these platforms or maybe too late? What are you noticing in patterns across some of these different filmmakers projects that you wish that they just would have known and they would have had a better kind of jumpstart? I mean, for us, it's the set it and quit it. Like thinking you can just stand it up and not come back. I mean, that is one of the probably the biggest weaknesses that we see across the success of fundraisers is thinking that just because it lives out there in the universe that people will find it. And no, we've been talking so much about audience and that literally is the piece of it is taking the fundraiser to where that audience is, whether it is online, but definitely don't forget offline. You can print QR codes through your fundraiser on GoFundMe and they can be posted in actual brick and mortar places. You can have them printed on cards and be able to hand them out, have them at events, have it be part of your networking, put them on the back of business cards, etc. So there's so many other ways to of getting the fundraiser out into the world that we want people to continue to use. We've also created within that sort of sharing format. These we call them posters, but they're it shows the visual you're where you are to goal. It has, again, that QR code, but it's something that's just a little bit more compelling and telling your story that can be printed out and then posted posted anywhere. So I think it's not understanding that it's an ongoing process. Just standing it up is a huge piece of the failure. And then you want to be authentic in how you position the story. And as I mentioned, you want to be specific on the dollar needs, but also. Right, maybe not too much for for people that are having to to read it. Right. You still want to be able to have people understand. So maybe don't get too technical in our fundraiser descriptions, but really putting your own personal stamp on it. Right. Is why this project matters to me. Not just, you know, this is what we're doing and this is the synopsis and etc. But why right now? Why this project for you? What is that direct connection? Those are all pieces that we find when they're missing from the fundraiser description. Also can have a huge impact on the overall success of how people review the fundraiser and if it connects. I love what you said about the in real life. Like, don't forget about in real life. It's so true. Like that converts the highest out of anything, both to like creating new audience members, like getting email addresses of people who are interested in things you're making. And also crowdfunding success, like hosting live events during your campaign is like one of the best things that you could do. But for like new crowdfunders, the common missteps, I think, similarly to what you were saying, like the not putting your personal stamp on it, cookie cutter materials. And you were saying to like the most important thing is just like making good work. Like there is so much supply. Like we really have to be pushing ourselves to make excellent, excellent work. So, yeah, not having cookie cutter materials, really infusing everything with a sense of storytelling, authenticity, your personal taste and style, like from your pitch video to your story section to your rewards, having really creative, enticing rewards that are fun and not just the standard. Yeah. So when people come to the platform and they think they could maybe kind of phone in the process, that's one thing that hurts them. Like you said, like the ghosting and not doing the communication outreach that it takes to be successful, that one-to-one direct outreach, which converts to a pledge at a 30% rate versus a social media share, which is passive. That converts to like a 1% rate that they're going to pledge. And not understanding how much audience building work really sets you up for success, like cannot stress that enough. I know I said it 85 million times already, but it's just because it's so important. So underestimating the work that you need to do before and during is just kind of the pitfall. But I think that folks who really understand it takes a lot of work and understand that there is kind of a mathematical way you could back yourself into what a responsible crowdfunding goal might look like. And we have an article on that in the playbook to kind of help you figure out like, okay, where am I audience wise? And like, what's my reach crowdfunding wise? And how does my budget compare to that? Do I have to do staged crowdfunding? We see people raise in phases all the time so that their crowdfunding campaigns can be a parallel to their audience building journey. And you can come back and build more audience trust through each process by showing what you've done. And then the other thing is like the emotional aspect. I think like people are a lot of people new to crowdfunding kind of have a lot of downloaded information or attitudes towards artistic work and what that's worth. And like feeling like can I ask for money feeling guilty about asking for money for our art like our society and a lot of ways kind of tells us that like it's not worth a lot sometimes and dispelling that whatever is in us so that we can confidently set the tone for our campaigns and understand that it's not just like a one way street transaction. Your audience is getting something in return and you're going to be investing in that community care and creating really awesome rewards for them and then eventually an amazing film that they're going to get to watch. For us it's really about packaging. If you're an investor and you know like they're all different sizes investors now looking for different things. But if you're an investor and you're looking at two projects and one is a screenplay and that's it and there's nothing else. And then the other is a hundred thousand dollar film right and maybe they're shooting 14 days and they've got actors that are not well known but they have something that's ready to actually be produced. That's the piece that I think a lot of people try to skip over and it really is a problem for us where they're asking the investors to sort of do the work and the investors don't have to do the work. They're there to help but they're not designed to you know kind of go out and wrap people up and make them successful. And so I think that that piece that is the business part of it that everyone in this room is an artist right but the business is a business. And so if you have to find someone who is a business person who is your producing partner go do it. There are people out there that just graduated from Stark or any of a number of programs who would love to help that part of it along. But you have to be really versed in the where does the money go? What does it cost? How do I get this person? How many days do I need this equipment? Rentals alone are something that people are experts in and you need to find those people. And so part of it is this attitude of like really like it is do-it-yourself which means you know you got to get up and do it. And you can't wait for other people to sort of sprinkle you know magic dust into the air. What I always say is that the thing that I find the most frustrating is that people act like the money is going to fall out of the sky in a bag and hit them on the toes. Right? And I've never seen it happen. Right? And if you're looking at really well like really successful professionals that have done great work over the years. One of the things that they don't like about show business is how much you have to raise money. But one of the things that is consistent is that you have to raise money. So there's the part where it's not something that makes us all thrilled and happy to get up in the morning. And there's the part where you just accept this is reality and get on with the business part of it. Wow. Amazing. I love the reality check of it all. Because I think that's part of what it is is a lot of people I think have a misconception about it seems like what you all are saying is that people maybe skip over the detail and the care that has to go into this phase. They think I'm going to put all of it into the script or I'm going to put all of it into production. And they're kind of ignoring this aspect that really I mean the film doesn't happen without. So I appreciate all of your expertise. Now we're going to open up to audience Q&A. So Lauren will come around with a mic. You're welcome to raise your hand if you have a question. Oh, sure. Go for it. I was wondering if you could speak to series development as opposed to just making a short film or a feature film but what you're running across. Everything you're talking about but in terms of being a series. Oh, yeah. I mean folks crowdfund for episodic all the time as well. I would say like you start with pilot like just because feasibly like it's a lot more content. But all the same best practices kind of apply from a crowdfunding standpoint. Yeah. We send TV folks to Seaton's work. That's what we do. That's literally what I do. And so they didn't even know about it until tonight. It's great that we're here so that I could let them know. But we don't for us. It's a different world of buyers and it's literally there are different people that work at the studios in television. And so we don't know them and we don't have any data on the monetization cycle of television series. And so because of that, like 10 years ago, we had this idea that we could sort of figure it out and we started and it was super intensive. And we still had the problem of, well, we're not as good at that and we don't have those contacts and we need to get good at one thing. And so we actually narrowed it down and stayed there. And at this point, it's become not it's just something that's important, right? Because we're the only one that is just for movies that has generated 70 plus films. Right. And so we don't want to be everything to everyone at this point because honestly, they're better at it. Right. And and so we want to just keep in our lane and stay very focused on that. I had a question for Slated. I'm sorry, what was your name again? It's Jay Burnley. Jay. OK, I'm John. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. I had a question when you talked about some of the I've heard about these AI things that are now people are running through their scripts through for budgets and whatnot and feedback. And when you said that, well, first, is there like a cost to use that service with you guys to give you feedback on your budget? And yes. Yes. So, I mean, I think we're the most cost intensive upfront platform of of this group, for sure, because it is professional services and we see it that way. So for the script analysis, it's four hundred ninety five dollars for the script and financial analysis. It's seven hundred ninety five dollars. We occasionally will do discounts, but really that's kind of where it's locked in. And I think the idea, you know, for us, we had this sort of moment in time where we had to define what does it look like to go into the future as a successful venture? And so we had to leave things where they are because margins and whatnot running a business. And so back to you, the script analysis, like what does it entail? Is it like these other companies where it's just a feedback sheet and we read your script and this is what we think about it or. So this is what's unique about it. It's it's three readers. They're professionals. They're the best and we know they're the best because they have the track record. It's 15 pages of response to the material. It's a systematic, holistic sort of score at the end, which tells me whether the thing is ready to produce or not. Just by looking at that number, it's a lot of things. And where we really the reason I actually want to mention it tonight is that it has a super high customer satisfaction. People really love it, especially writers that want to get feedback, who just want a professional who's anonymous. It's a double blind system, so they don't know what they're reading and you don't know who they are. And that has worked really well with professional filmmakers. And we actually have had some pretty amazing feedback from people that are like great writers that were like, oh, I've never gotten coverage from someone that didn't know it was me. Right. And so that's been one of the best tools over the years. And we use it kind of automatically. And, you know, it's not it's a funny thing because you're you're wanting people to use it. And you sort of have to keep the price where it is. And the world is going in a very different direction. The world is going for down and dirty and fast machine driven gobbledygook. And so we're kind of stuck in this old world that, you know, we want it to be good and we know the system works and we're not going to change. And and, you know, ultimately it's because the movies have been good to date and they're getting better that we just want to keep doing that. Right. And so we're super human driven. Sorry. We are very human driven and we are we we're not superhuman in any way, shape or form. But, you know, I think that we're we're on the ground making million dollar movies on the ground, making five million dollar movies. We're on the ground making movies. And I think that's what it's all about for us. Thank you guys so much for coming out up over here on this corner. How's it going? So I was wondering if the three of you could maybe quickly answer this question. You each in your respective platform. Is there a an average median budget that you're seeing that your feature films are kind of landing in? No. OK, like searching data in my brain. And of course, I think this goes in hand hand in hand with successful. Yeah. No, because I think also some folks come at it from like their their funding for a portion. Sure. Like this filmmaker, Aaron Strand, who's doing something really cool with a self-distribution theatrical run right now. Check out his sub stack for his film, his feature Withdrawal. He raised forty thousand dollars, but it was for a portion like finishing funds to get you through. Some people some people do the whole thing. Sure. The feature that just kind of broke records for us this year is called it's an improvised comedy feature. My partner, Drew Vidae Singh, there is in it also. Shout out to you. It's called The Greatest Treasure on Earth. And it raised two hundred and sixty four thousand dollars for an improv comedy feature full of amazing like dropout improv comedians. So that's like the the bar, I would say, of like what we're seeing for features. Congratulations, by the way. And that's awesome. Awesome. I mean, here's some data, which is that the average the average budget for an independent feature film in the United States and Western Europe is two and a half million dollars. So that is the baseline. We have a very similar success story of an Australian film that we released that is essentially a micro budget film. And the filmmakers done a YouTube video that's on the slated YouTube channel. How to make a profitable film. And it's one of my favorite things that we've ever been involved with, because the movie is actually very polarizing. People love it or they don't love it. And that is a thing that is a really great reaction, actually, because it creates conversation. We love the film. Obviously, we put it out, we acquired it. We went through all the trouble and spent money to do so. And yet where it really popped was that during the summer, it was just this down and dirty horror film that's really well made that connected with audiences on transactional video on demand. And so it started to do really well. And we were just thrilled because this is not our core business. This is not something that we spend a ton of time on. This is something that we did because we love it. This is something that we saw a young filmmaker who crushed it and no one was releasing his film, especially not in the US. And for us, that was just an exciting thing to do. And so that is is the data. And that's our little success story. The matriarch. Look for it. And just a follow up. Thank you very much, by the way. Outside of your respective platforms, and I think maybe this just goes to my project right now with my partner, who's the director. It's a very personal story, but I am under this feeling to do it myself and maybe not using a platform. I know the three of you are working at a platform right now, but outside of that, have you consulted people doing it without those platforms? Do you recommend that they have to do it through one of these platforms or, you know, sometimes I'm sure you don't. But I would love to know your feedback. Having like a crowdfunding campaign creates like a sense of urgency. It's like a contained 30 days. Like so having that's kind of like the value of doing it that way is because if it's just kind of like an open ended ask, you're going to see less people show up for that. So making it exclusive, urgent now, and there's all these amazing rewards like it. It really does help the psychology of crowdfunding and how people show up. I'm sure you have experienced that. No, 100 percent. I mean, I think you nailed it. Definitely with the urgency. Right. So putting in very clear timelines, right, really does get people on the hook and they understand sort of why the giving needs to happen now. And we encourage people to communicate that very much in the upfront. But it also again, my team that's looking at these these fundraisers and these projects, it then also communicates to us and it drives that sense also for outside conversations. Again, I mentioned those that earned media component. And when news outlets know that you're kind of like trying to hit this, that really also helps them drive their their coverage and get them hooked and interested as quickly as possible. Because in that sense, it almost is like a breaking news story versus just being, oh, this really cool project that's happening in the community. I think that getting press is a very good thing and it's not easy to do, but it is attainable. And, you know, to be frank, I don't know what the movie is. I don't know what the budget is. I don't know who's in it. And I'd have to look at it all. That's like, honestly, the truth. If you have a rich uncle who's going to finance your film, just say yes. Hi, I'm Brian. I don't have a question. I just wanted to thank you. This was awesome. I'm so glad to hear to reinforce that machines are not human and they're not artists, whether that's writers, directors or actors. I'm being turned off by this whole artificial intelligence thing. And you guys have confirmed that. I'm happy to say I've had I've had raised money. I've never used your platforms. I have an unscripted comedy called Senior Entourage, which streamed everywhere. We got an M.G. and I continue to make films. But this was great. I just want to thank you guys. If anybody else has a real question, go ahead. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We've got time for about two more questions. I think we had a question in the back. Yes. Hi. My question is mostly for Seaton Spark. And I'm like a music person. And I know you said you do like all types of creative projects. So I'm wondering if it's best to kind of pitch my project as like singles or does it do better as like a whole project? And is it just like visuals? I'm really into making like narrative music videos. It's like my reasoning. Hell yeah. In terms of whether you do a single or a larger project like an EP or an album, there's no data to support. One is better than the other. It's really like what is the thing you want to make? What do you need to make the thing you want to make? And then all the best practices still apply in terms of like what makes your materials good and stand out. Like the pitch video is going to be different for you than it would be for a filmmaker. But it's still a visual medium, you know. So a lot of those best practices really do apply. If you email me at crowdfunding at seedandspark.com and spelled out. And just be like, hey, this is so-and-so from The Thing. My name is Baby. And then I'll send you some music video campaign examples. They're in the playbook. But I'm like, let me just send you some music videos and music projects that I think are good examples. I feel like examples just do a better job at showing you rather than telling how to do it. But yeah, we love music projects. We did a crowdfunding rally a couple of years ago, really focused just on music projects. And we didn't get a lot of people coming out for that. I was bummed. But it was a cool experiment. So please crowdfund your music project. Thank you so much. That's super exciting. All right. Last question. Thank you. For Seed&Spark, when you talked about the ones that weren't successful had some type of AI touchpoint. Do you know in what capacity? And then also for everyone, when people look at texting people, have you found there to be a way to text people collectively yet they still receive it as an individual text? Because I know you can do it in email, but I'd love to find a way to do it via text message. Thanks. So the AI fingerprint, it's anything from like Gen AI images that are kind of like tasteless. I mean tasteless, like it doesn't show the taste, your taste. It's, you know, slop in my opinion. But you can kind of tell there are like markers of Gen AI writing style, too. Like I don't know if you've seen any of the articles out about like just like the tone of voice that like AI spits out. So like visible AI fingerprints in that way where like you look at the page and you can see it, you can smell it. It's a deterrent. Like and not being in your video, not really showing like what you can do. And like it's kind of like, OK, well, if this is an example of like what you're raising money for, why am I giving you money if you're just going to run it through a robot? I don't know. What was the other part of your question? Sorry. Yeah, I guess there's probably a way, but it's not going to hit like you think it's going to hit. You really want to like tend to your relationships. Like the bulk of the work that's going to yield to financial pledges is like one on one relationship tending. So like I would not try and like snap through that. Yeah, it ends up being a long term relationship, whether you're thinking of it or not. Like the cycle of their wanting to see results is going to go on and the art hopefully will live on and hopefully will continue to make money for decades. But I think there's a real responsibility that people have to take care of that part of the process and make sure that people are treated as investors should be treated, which is to say, you know, they get statements. They know the basic information about where the film or the project is available. And and so I think that, you know, those are those are real relationships ultimately. And I think that a lot of times people forget that, you know, the person that's putting in the money isn't doing it because they're just a wealthy benefactor. They have some reason they're connected to your work and they want to support you and they all they're asking for. I mean, I'm frankly shocked to hear that people don't use the thank you feature. I mean, that's just so sad. It's so ridiculous. Like say thank you. Like tell them that that that you made a difference. I think that that is something that gets lost in the process. It is a hard process. Everyone needs money to get these projects done. And yet at the same time, there's a certain grace that can be established and a certain working relationship that can can be a healthy one. And I think it doesn't have to be, you know, a kind of grab the money and run kind of situation. And we always sort of hate to see that mentality under our orbit. It's it's underutilized. Some people are very good about sending thank yous. We just would encourage more people to send the thank yous. But I mean, I think lastly, really thinking about the personalization of a crowdfunding cycle. And again, that initial outreach. Hey, Mary, I have this thing that's really important to me. I think you would care about it. And then thank you so much, Mary. Your five dollars actually made a huge difference. We had coffee on set that day. Right. Maybe for one person, maybe not. Everybody got coffee. But right. Thinking about it as that sort of full cycle and those touch points, as you mentioned. But that personal relationship makes all the difference in the overall journey. And so really trying to figure out, yes, where you can as much as possible, like look people in the eyes figuratively. You know, not literally speaking in this instance, but it really is. Is the game changer of unlocking the funds and getting you to a goal versus things sort of remaining flat or petering out? Well, in the spirit of writing our thank you notes. Thank you, Gabriella, Jay and me for all. Thank you so much. Thank you, everybody, for coming. Yeah, thank you. Thank you.