Labs, Retreats and Development Programs for Filmmakers | The Business | SAG-AFTRA Foundation

So, to kick things off, why don't we just go down the line here and if you could all introduce yourselves, introduce your organizations, tell us where your organization is based and what the mission of the organization is. Let's, why don't we start off in the order that I introduced everyone, so let's start with Claire. Hi, I'm Claire, as mentioned, I work for the Blacklist, I'm the Director of Writer Community here at the Blacklist, I help out with our labs, which we'll speak about, but I also do a lot of comms, so if you've ever received an email from us, apologies, that's probably from me. If you've ever checked our Instagram, probably had something to do with it. And you know, we are an organization that exists to kind of bridge the gap between writers in the industry, especially for people who are outside of the typical access zone of living in Hollywood and working as a writer's assistant or something, and to try to be able to bring the industry closer to them. Okay, great, Elyse? Hi everyone, my name is Elyse McKimmy and I am the Deputy Director of the Feature Film Program at the Sundance Institute. Sundance Institute is a non-profit organization that discovers and supports independent film and media artists from the U.S. and around the world, and introduces audiences to their new work. One arm of what we do is the Sundance Film Festival, but then also under the Sundance Institute, we have many artist programs, specifically with the Feature Film Program, we support emerging independent screenwriters, directors, and producers who are developing new work at the earliest stages of their career. Okay, David? Hi, I'm happy to be here. My name is David Rocchio and I run Stowe Story Labs. We founded in 2013, we're a 501c3 nonprofit, and we help emerging filmmakers and screenwriters develop skills and projects. We look for people who would have a very hard time breaking into the industry, but for programs like ours, we work in the U.S., Canada, the EU, and the U.K. We run labs, retreats, workshops, long-form writing programs, and market preparation programs, and we love what we do. Holly? Hi, everyone, I'm Holly Stanton, I'm a partner and head of development at Anti-Gravity Academy. We are a production company and talent incubator founded by filmmaker Carlos Lopez Estrada. Several years ago, on the production company side, we have a development slate that I oversee of film, television, documentary projects, all with kind of a unique emphasis on personal storytelling. And our talent incubator, which also kind of holds hands with our production company, is comprised of a few different programs. We have a screenwriters camp, which is probably what we'll talk a lot about today. We do a short film studio that's in partnership with Dolby. These are all open call programs, so we're really looking for talent, you know, from literally anywhere, also free to date. And that's really specifically focused on emerging storytellers. So folks that are, again, at the earliest stages of their career, they could be extraordinarily green or, you know, have been working on a screenplay for 20 years, it really doesn't matter to us. We like to kind of, you know, create a diverse cohort with every program that we do. And yeah, so we kind of have two sides of what we do. Great. So all of you touched upon this a bit a little with your introductions, but let's slow down a little bit and talk a bit about your organizations and the various programs that you offer. You know, how many of you are just focused on shorts or features, or do you also focus on a series or other types of entertainment projects? And if you could just kind of explain them a little more depth than just a list. Anyone, feel free to go ahead and start at will. I can jump in. So I'll talk specifically about the Feature Film Program, which is the program that I oversee. We offer programs for screenwriters through our Development Track application every year. It's an open application, and we use that application to source artists and projects for two screenwriters programs. One is our Winter Screenwriters Lab. That's an in-person six-day retreat. It supports 10 projects. We support writers, writer-directors, or writers and directors working in teams, and it is for artists who are developing what will become their first or second fiction feature. Most of them are first time, but we do have room to support a handful of second fiction features. And the heart of that lab are one-on-one meetings between the writing fellows and our creative advisors who are working established screenwriters. So each artist would have five or six individual meetings with five different creative advisors over the course of the lab to really dig deeply into the material and hopefully put them on the path to the most compelling version of the story they want to tell, but staying true to their unique perspective and to their personal creative vision for the project. The second screenwriters program is our Screenwriters Intensive. That's a two-day online program, and it also supports the writers, writer-directors, or writing teams of 10 projects. It allows us to support either an artist or a piece of material that's a little bit more nascent, a little earlier on in its development. So it's mainly for first-time feature makers, and it's very similar in terms of ethos and approach to the Screenwriters Lab, but it is a shorter lab. There are two meetings instead of five meetings. The thing that they have in common is that we really view an artist's participation as the beginning of our relationship with them, and we are committed to remaining a creative and strategic advocate for each artist throughout the life of that project. Means different things for different folks, depending on what you need and where you are in the process, but all of the support is geared towards helping them build or sustain momentum wherever they happen to be. We also offer a Director's Lab for first-time fiction feature directors. That is not an open call program. That is only open to projects that are already in the pipeline of support through a previous writer's program, and that allows every year eight fiction feature directors with a work-in-progress screenplay to identify two scenes from their script that they want to rehearse, shoot, and edit in a workshop environment. The focus is totally on process and exploration. The scenes that are created at the lab are not intended for use outside of the lab. It is not a fundraising tool. They are not going to end up in your movie. It is totally about embracing risk, not being afraid of failure, using the very fundamental storytelling tools and collaboration with a crew and actors to make creative discoveries about the material that you are working on and also to expand your toolbox in terms of your craft as a director. Great. Anyone else want to jump in? Sure. So we have three labs that we do at the Blacklist. We have two feature film writing labs and then one episodic lab. The episodic lab is a partnership with WIF, Women in Film, which is an LA-based organization that we work with very closely on our episodic lab. It is specifically for TV writers of underrepresented genders, so that is women, non-binary people, trans people. So sorry to all the cis men TV writers out there, but you have your own opportunities. So that is a month-long program that is typically held in March. We typically choose around six writers, including writer students as well. And that meets three times a week in March. We have lots of panels with working writers. Every year, Glenn Mazzara comes in and talks to our class, and he is the best if you know anything about Glenn. He can talk for hours and it is all just like, I need to write this down. But what's really fun about the program, which is a fairly recent thing that we've started doing, is we've been doing fake rooms with the actual pilots that come through the program. So we're bringing real showrunners, like we've had Krista Bernhoff and Julie Flack in the past, and they treat your pilot as if it is the show that they are showrunning. So we have these little mock rooms every Saturday where you get three hours with this amazing working showrunner, basically just treating your material like it is a real thing that is in production. And it's just an unbelievable experience for the writers, and we're all very jealous that they get to do it. No, we did it for them. And so our feature labs, we have two tracks. One is for screenwriters who are just straight screenwriters, and one for writer directors. So the screenwriters lab is just called the Writer's Lab. It's specifically for writers who want to work in the studio system, who have very commercial voices and are interested in picking up assignments, doing open writing assignments, pitching things, like they know, they have a good idea of what it means to be a working commercial screenwriter. On the other side, we have the Projects Lab, which is for writer directors who are maybe doing something a little less commercial, a little more personal, but with a very clear vision. Like, they are writing the projects that they themselves want to direct. They're not going to hand it off to anyone and just get a paycheck. They're like, no, this is my baby. So these are both week-long programs in Ojai. We rent out this fancy motel in Ojai, invite a lot of screenwriting mentors, like we've had. Kiwi Smith is usually a mentor. We've had, like, Liz Hanna and people, and they basically just hang out with us for half of the week. They get one-on-one sessions with the writers to talk about their projects. We all have dinner together, and alumni will come and talk to the writers, we'll have execs come, and it's basically just like a week-long summer camp. The Writer's Lab is in October, and the Projects Lab is in November. Unlike other filmmaking labs, this is specifically centered on the writing process of it. So we're not going to give you help to be like, you know, I'm looking for a great DP. We'll give you recommendations of friends and stuff, but we're not here to help you with the filmmaking process. We're here to get your script in the best possible state it can be before you go out into the world. So yeah, above all else, we are script first. That's what I got. Piggyback on that, since we have a lot in common in our programs, too, but I'll speak specifically to the Screenwriters Camp that we do. We're going into our fourth year. It's structured, it kicks off with an intensive that we do at Lake Arrowhead. It's an open call program, as I mentioned before, you know, we stage the application in tiers. So it starts with a personal video, then, you know, we read the scripts, and then we narrow it down to six projects. And that can also include writing teams, but we like to, you know, select the projects based on also potentially the chemistry of the cohort and, like, who we think is going to bounce off each other in a really beautiful way, because core to the program is a real sense of, you know, peer ownership, you know, and leadership. So the way that the intensive is structured, we all go to Lake Arrowhead, it is very much like a fun camp environment, as opposed to like a very serious lab. So we are doing, you know, all day, it's really intensive, you know, we do peer review sessions, we have mentorship sessions, we have workshops, you know, from screenwriters, from, you know, directors that are talking about screenwriting, it is very screenwriting focused, as opposed to kind of jumping into the future and looking at production. It's really about the craft and the process. But then, you know, in the evenings, we like to have fun, you know, we do a game night, we do, you know, s'mores, we do storytelling, all of these things. So it is kind of a place to also be a kid again, which is really fun. But we, yeah, the combination of kind of workshops, you know, one on one sessions with mentors, you know, we have filmmakers, like, you know, we had screenwriters this year, we had like Lucy Alibar, we had, you know, we've had Greg Quidor and Clint Bentley in the past. This year, I mean, Sean Wong has, you know, come up pretty much every year and spoken to, you know, making his first feature, because everybody that we have in the program, this will be their first feature. And really, you know, more than anything, the overall tenor of it is, is people over product, you know, we really like to focus on the filmmakers, their own personal journeys, what they're bringing to the scripts, you know, because we think that, of course, that is the superpower of every script. And after camp ends, you know, we do a structured kind of draft and notes process, like with antigravity. They keep in touch in their own, you know, volition with their mentors that they need at camp. But we do two drafts and a polish, we have also virtual peer sessions, because people tend to be spread out all over the place. And then we do a concerted period of industry exposure, where basically, I am working with them over the course of, you know, five, six months and kind of identifying their goals, how we can help fill in some of the gaps, you know, of relationships, you know, sometimes people want representation, and other times people want to meet independent producers. And we try to engineer, you know, introductions, roundtables, things like that around some of the individual and collective goals of the group. So it's intensive plus hybrid at the end. Thanks. It's also interesting, similarities, but differences, and I'd love to have a conversation with you all, not on the panel about the programs and how to make them better. We run, similarly, labs, retreats, we run long form writing programs, and we do market prep programs. The labs are the largest events, they're for about 50 people, it's a four day program, early stage projects, people come to us with no experience at all, and they're coming into film and TV from another place. And we have people who have been in two rooms or three rooms, and now they're writing their first feature. You don't need a script to come to the lab, although strongly encouraged. And the lab is about what is the story you're working on? How are you going to bring it to market? What is the market for it? How are you going to talk about it in the industry? And we do a fair amount of craft development at the labs as well. And a lot of peer to peer time. At the end of the four day program, you should have a good sense of what it is you're trying to make, and how you're going to bring it out into the world and where it will sit. We have for the 50 people, we typically have 10 mentors, and the mentors work in small groups with the participants. And it's full on when we start a program, I tell them to let it wash over them like a wave at the beach, because there's a lot of information coming at them, and just experience it. The way we structure the program, they're using what they're learning each day. And by the end, they should have a very strong sense and be in a different place with their project. Our writers retreats are smaller. They're no more than 20 people or 20 projects, you know, teams of two writers, writers, directors or writer producers. And there are more mentors, there's probably 14 mentors at the retreats. Each person at the retreat gets three one hour one on one meeting, meetings with three different mentors. Plus, we do panels and conversation interviews. Like all the conversations, there's a lot of interaction with the mentors, there's no virtual velvet rope dividing the mentors from the participants. And there's a lot of collaboration in both the retreats and the labs, we spend a fair amount of time curating the peer groups. And those groups meet daily to do script notes, but also gives them a chance to take in and discuss the content of the programs. Many of those peer groups have become writing rooms and writer groups that are going on for years. At the end of the retreat, you should have very clear idea where you're going to go with the script to generate a polished draft, and a strong sense of what comes next. Texts get picked up at the retreats and move forward with producers attached, etc. Our long form writing programs, we do one, our retreats in our labs are for TV and film, we don't differentiate, we feel writers need to know about both. And if they're focusing on one or the other, we can guide them in that way. We're 100% agnostic on genre, format, TV or film, but episodic and all its different variations now. We're open to any product, we're looking for character driven stories grounded in something specific that has universal themes and will reach audiences. The long form writing programs are the only ones we divide by format. So the TV, we call it the writer's room. That's a 12 week program. We bring in top showrunners to work with the writers on how to build a successful show. Eric Simons has been doing it with us for several years, and he breaks down the first season of The Sinners and just goes through from his first draft through the shooting script and takes them through the whole process. And then David Pope takes people through the rest of the program and they'll finish the program with a very solid first draft of a TV pilot. The feature campus is 12 weeks with David and you'll end with a very solid first draft of a feature script and a lot of skill development. And we run producers labs for emerging creative producers. Those are also four day programs and we look for first or second feature film micro to $1.5 million budget and real intent to be a creative producer. So the labs and retreats, you can be a writer, hyphenate, director, producer at the producer labs. We're looking for people who really want to be and have their focus be creative production. And we lean into international co-production a fair amount. We have a lot of international participants and we want our American filmmakers to realize that the system outside of Hollywood and although we don't have co-production treaties, there are tremendous ways to work internationally on English language projects. And we do a two day program adjacent to festivals. We call them facing in, facing out, which is one day on story and one day on script and one day on talking about the script in the industry. And those programs are to help people feel comfortable going to festivals that have markets adjacent to them. We do more, but I'll stop because that's a lot of information in a short amount of time. Oh, so so it's really kind of a large, these programs are all very different. It's fascinating. I'm curious, especially given some of you have mentioned programs that last a couple of days, some of you mentioned multiple weeks. What is so what's the reality in terms of the time commitment for anyone who's going to participate in any of these? Is this like essentially a full time job while you're at these or are you doing part time work? Is this how much of this virtual, how much of it is in person? Anyone could feel free to grab. I'll jump in because we're on Zoom. We'd never done anything remotely before. And during the pandemic, like everybody else, we've reinvented ourselves. We run our programs are intensive. So whether it's a two day market experience program or it's a five day retreat or a four day lab, when you're there, you're all in and there's not a lot of free time. I'm always I feel bad people coming to Stowe, Vermont, because they don't really see it. They see the beautiful art center in town where we hold our programs and they see their their hotel room. So those are very intensive. We do our online writers retreat. That program has continued since the pandemic because there are a lot of writers who they feel more comfortable sitting in their home doing the program. They don't have the time to dedicate five days. They don't want to do the travel or it's too expensive to do travel. So the online writers retreat is less of an intensive. The rest of our programs are intensives. Anyone else want to jump in on the time commitment? Sure. Yeah. Our our intensive is six days, you know, and then from there it's really, you know, we do maybe two longer form zooms that are maybe three, maybe three of these that are three hours each, you know, and those are the peer feedback sessions and then maybe three one on ones that are each an hour. All of these are sort of spaced out over the course of five, you know, six months after camp. So really a lot of it is setting goals that everyone kind of individually can realistically meet. Sometimes people are in the middle of a different, you know, producing their short and they're not going to be able to accomplish too much in one draft. So we adjust expectations and kind of, you know, bump more work to the next round. It really depends. And I think like anything, you really get out of it what you put into it. And so we really set that up at the beginning. And people have always really prioritized. We expect everybody to come to every zoom that is scheduled. So and we've had that experience where people end up prioritizing it. But we try not to inundate them too much because we also want to give them time to write independently. Yeah. And for our programs, the winter screenwriters lab and the director's lab are both residency programs. We cover the cost of economy, airfare and meals and housing for the duration of the programs. The winter lab is six days. The director's lab is 16 days. So it's a significant time commitment. And in addition, the prep for that program is also fairly significant because it's kind of like going into pre-production. So there are workshops that online that lead up to the time that we're in person. The directors are going through a casting process and a very condensed pre-production process. But following the programs, all of the other support is basically on the artist's schedule. Although I always say the free gift I can offer any filmmaker is a deadline. But we can usually sort of customize the timing of support check-ins, workshops based on their availability. We also our feature residencies are residencies. They are five days high. They're also all expenses paid. It's open to all writers from around the world. So we will get you there as best as we can. We've had writers with our programs from Australia, Sweden, Canada. So we'll fly you to L.A. And so that's five days and that's all day, all night. We ask you to be very present while you're there. We know it's asking a lot, but hopefully you get a lot in return as well. Our episodic lab is much more flexible. Unfortunately, we do need to be based in L.A. to participate in the episodic lab, but we schedule it so that it's after work hours. So typically events start at seven on the Tuesdays and Thursdays in March, because we know that a lot of people working who are TV writers are usually working for TV shows. And so they don't really have the ability to just go to something at 10 a.m. on a Tuesday. So we have that. And then the writing, the mock writer rooms that we do on Saturdays. So we like to schedule around to make sure people can come to that. But with both labs, we also have like like the rest of the labs here. We have kind of long reaching Zooms and panels and stuff that we like to invite all the alumni to. And we want to make sure that like your five days in Ohio are not the last time you see us or hear from us. Like we very much like to bring people into the fold and let them know that you're you're part of the family. OK, great. So most of these at least sound as if they're geared towards basically first time filmmakers, second time filmmakers, writers. Are there parts of your programs that are also geared towards mid career filmmakers or is this purely for people who are just starting out? We accept people who are mid career if they're working on something new. So they're so like I said, if they're in a TV room, they're working on a feature or they're established feature writer and they want to do TV because it's not. I don't think if someone has four or five features under their belt, they would come as a participant. I think they would come as a mentor. It's the same for us. However, we really just require that it is your first narrative feature. For instance, we have documentary filmmakers who have made a couple of feature docs, you know, who have come through our program this year and it's their first screenplay. And, you know, it was a really extraordinary experience for them to kind of shift that mindset into narrative filmmaking from their documentary experience. And same with people that have experience in other areas and films. So it's not just like we have a very established editor that's in our cohort this year who it's his first time writing a screenplay. So we're really agnostic. But for the most part, we just like to make sure that there's a range of people that have, you know, no one has made a narrative film before. But maybe there's somebody that is extremely green or fresh out of college or otherwise and others that have maybe written a few screenplays. But this is the one that they really want to make as their first feature, just so that there's a bit of range, you know, and experience and support among the group. I think unlike those labs, we are also very much early career. But for the writer's lab in particular, which is the one first for the commercial space, we don't necessarily want to see your first script that you've ever written. Like we have done that in the past, but we're just focusing more on people who are very, very committed to a career in screenwriting. And, you know, we've read some scripts by first time writers that are incredible, but the writer themselves isn't necessarily in a position to take the writing career to the next step. Like sometimes they're just like, yeah, it's just a hobby. And I really enjoy writing. And it's like a nice outlet for me. Like, that's great. Keep doing that. This is a lab for people who want to work as career screenwriters. So it's not the right fit for you. So while we focus on early career writers, we still want you to be at this point. Yeah, you've you've written a few projects, nothing produced necessarily. Like we're not expecting that you've had any options. We just want to know that you're out there actually putting in the work to write. And this isn't just kind of a one off. But with our features lab or projects lab, you have to have at least one short made. Sometimes people will have already made their first or even second feature. I don't quote me on this. I don't. There's the money cut off, I think. But I think you can't have like made one hundred thousand dollars in film and TV as a writer. Look up the fine print. I think it's something like that. So we will accept people who have made tiny indies that they haven't necessarily found distribution. But they're working on a new project that they really want to direct. And they're wanting to take a more serious look at the screenwriting and the craft for their episodic lab. It's kind of a free for all. We've taken people who are, you know, right out of college. Some people who are in college and then some people who have been writing for years, but are just deciding that they're going to give it the old try and try to make it as a writer or have come to it after. So we're kind of a mix. And we're very similar to what Holly was saying in that we have supported folks who are more established in other mediums. We supported, you know, Lana Wilson, the documentarian or Carrie Mae Weems, the visual artist or Bess Will, the playwright. But in terms of feature credits, we do limit it to folks who are developing what will be either their first or second fiction feature to be produced. OK, great. Try to figure out how to ask this one. So one of the industry secrets about festivals is that often programming is done by tracking filmmakers and films that the programmers already know about. So I'm curious what the acceptance rates at all of your organizations are for cold submissions. Are you guys depending mostly on cold submissions, somewhat on cold submissions or very little on cold submissions? We admit off application season. Our admission rate is about 30 percent. Alumni can register for programs. And so we reserve some slots for alumni and for writers or treats. Alumni can register, but it's subject to a script review. The script has to be in pretty good shape for the writers retreats. And then we do partner with Galway Film and others and we will take nominations from them. But that's all subject to a script review. Yeah, I don't actually know the numbers because we don't really differentiate. Our acceptance is based on how the person came to us, but. We're I mean, we've maintained an open call throughout the history of the labs and certainly there are folks who get in who we were tracking, either because we saw short of theirs that we loved or they were recommended by someone who knows what the program does and thought they would be a good fit. Or maybe it's someone who initially came to us over the transom and that script wasn't exactly the right fit. But we love their work and encourage them to reapply with a new project. And then there are, you know, a handful every year that we're like, oh, wow, we didn't know who this person was and are so excited to find them. I mean, I think in terms of the perception of you got to know someone to get in, all I can say is it would make my job so much easier if I found all of our projects exclusively by people who came to us without any work from us. I would love for that to happen every year. It's a mix. But we are definitely open and are always really thrilled when we find someone who comes out of the blue for us. Yeah, it's very similar for the blacklist as well. Obviously, we're different because we are a website where you can submit your scripts to get variations of things. So unlike other organizations, we are technically like a for profit business. And so when you submit your scripts there, you can opt in. I can go into a full explanation of it. Basically, you can opt in the project and then enter for the labs. So we see a lot of people who just kind of come out of nowhere who are just like, oh, I'm a teacher from Idaho and I'm running a script. And I'm like, wow, where did you come from? But we also do see a lot of people who we shortlist for other programs. Like, for example, our projects lab is our newest lab. We used to just have one annual lab for just screenwriters. But, you know, as we went on, we're like, there's a lot of really talented screenwriters who just want to make their own work. And that's so different than wanting to be like a mainstream commercial screenwriter. And we're not serving those people the best way we can. So we should create a lab for them. So, for example, one writer who I'm pretty sure has gone through three out of the four labs on this call is Alex Chin. She's this amazing filmmaker who wrote this feature called Thirsty Girl. And she kind of been on our radar in the past because she'd always been shortlisted for labs and things. And we're just like, oh, we wish we had the program for you. Like, we know you're immensely talented and dedicated, like you're going to get this movie made. But just the program isn't built for someone of your skill set right now. And then we created the projects lab and we're like, yeah, Alex Chin, she's in. Like, she's been on our radar for years. We just need the right program. So it's definitely like a mixture of people coming in from the blue and then people who we have seen for years. And we're just like, oh, it's just not right for them yet. I think similarly to Elise, you know, it is an open call program, our screenwriters camp and same with our short film studio. And, you know, because I'm also a development exec at our company, I'm always tracking filmmakers also from these other labs and, you know, tracking projects and meeting so many filmmakers in my job that there are so many where I'm like, you would be perfect for this camp. And so I'll invite them to apply. And, you know, I also solicit recommendations from from different people in the industry, you know, including people, people like Elise and Claire and David, I'm going to be writing you this year. But but I think ultimately for us, the discovery is so, so, so special and life changing and can be a really I mean, it's a really, really important part of this aspect for us. So we always try to make sure that we are, you know, prioritizing folks that like do not have like a natural point of entry in this industry, because we know that this can really be a meaningful boost, you know, for them as writers, but also, you know, for the projects and the lifecycle of, you know, hopefully them getting made. And for that, we also look for people, you know, I mean, we're limited to America right now, but, you know, we have people flying in this year from Ohio and, you know, like all over the East Coast and all up and down the West Coast. And that type of diversity is also really important for us as well. So. So, yeah, we definitely are always looking for people that are, quote, unquote, coming out of the woodwork that we hadn't encountered before, especially if, you know, there have definitely been people coming through our program who it is the first screenplay they've ever written. This is like a pivot in their career, you know, later in life. Like we are always looking for those types of stories and are really excited by that. So. Great. So let's talk about the application process a little bit. So aside from initial application fees, are there any other costs that people should be aware of or planning for associated with with any of your programs? I can jump in just because the blacklist is very different from other organizations, where it's not necessarily application fees that you have to submit to our programs. Like I mentioned, our website, you have to submit your scripts to get an evaluation for a paid cost. There are lots of things you can do on our website for free. You can create a writer profile and join the website for free. But if you want to submit to a lab or to a program or to just get feedback on the script, you have to pay for that. So the benefit is once you get an evaluation from one of our readers, you can submit to anything as long as you're eligible. So it's not that you need to pay for each program anytime you want to submit. OK, here's my script called the movie. The movie gets an evaluation from a reader. We have a scale of one to ten. Eight plus is very high. So it's like you had a seven on it. That's good. That's a good score. You know what? I'm going to submit it to all of our programs and that's no additional cost. If you want another evaluation, you can do it. Sorry. You can do that if you like. No one's going to stop you. And we just all that we ask when you submit to our programs is that you have at least one evaluation because, you know, we're a team of seven people. We get thousands of submissions. So we're really depending on our paid professional readers who work for the blacklist to kind of go through that first. Let me just go through anything that goes on site. But like they're really our first line of defense when someone submits to the program, because we can only read so many scripts. Sometimes we're tiny people. So, yeah, the blacklist is pretty unique in that regard where there is the cost of entry. But you can do whatever you like. We just have a forty five dollar application fee for the development track application, which is our open application and there's no other costs associated with the program. We're fee based. We charge an application fee just to cover the application process. And every script that comes through gets two reads. I think all but a couple of our readers are all alumni now of our programs. And we have a very robust training process for the script reads. The reason we do two reads is even with two reads with well-trained readers who we know, the amplitude between one score and the other can be quite significant because it's so subjective. And we do robust application review as well. It's not just the script. It's personal essay background, log lines, synopsis, ancillaries they can provide. And it's interesting. The script reads in the script reviews and the application reviews. I identify all the applicants by their name and so many other people on our team identify the applicant by the script name. So it's always a funny thing of who's looking at which side, which which side is more important to which reviewers. So the application fee covers that. And we're a fee based organization. We do significant scholarship and fellowship programs as well. But we started I founded the organization and I didn't want to wait for permission. So we started as a fee based organization and charge fees to attend with robust scholarship and fellowship partnerships. SAG Indy is a fellowship partner with us. All right. We are just we are a free program. It is free to apply all of this to date. You know, of course, it's it's an evolving landscape. But, you know, so so far we are keeping everything free. And there's no costs affiliated with attending the program. You know, of course, if someone wants to, like, stay in L.A. before or after or something, that's entirely on them. But we fly them out. We put them up at the intensive. All of the room and board is covered and everything afterwards is, of course, virtual. But, yeah, we we have felt especially in the first several years of the program, it's run through a fiscal sponsor. So, you know, we have donors that have been very graciously supporting this program to date. And, you know, we want to continue to keep it that way. So for that reason, we want to do everything in our power to keep it as free and or affordable as possible. Great. So with regard to submission, how far along, generally speaking, should do you think project should be before consideration for being submitted? Is there too early? Is there too late? And should someone bother to resubmit if they're they've been rejected? I can start on this one. So you do need a complete draft of a screenplay in order to apply for our programs. We very much expect it will be a work in progress still under development, but it needs to be a complete draft. If you're adapting something, you have to make the first stab at the adaptation. You can't submit a play or a book or anything like that. In terms of timing, what I usually say is that the ideal time to apply to our lab is when you feel like you've taken a piece of material as far as you can on your own. And it is the fresh perspective and more experienced brains of generous advisors that are really needed to help you brainstorm solutions to sovereign problems or get unstuck or just take something that you think is solid and help you make it special. In terms of reapplication, we are open to that as long as we we ask the applicants to really candidly assess this. If they've done rewrites that have significantly changed the material since the last time we read it. And what I mean by that is I want you to feel like you have made key discoveries or cracked something open in a way that makes it feel somehow new to you, because if it doesn't feel new to you, it's not likely to feel new to us. So if all you've done is change some margins, it's not a great use of your time and it's not a great use of our time to resubmit. I think that in terms of early or late. You know, we encourage folks to apply when they feel grounded in the essential elements of the story that they want to tell, because during our program you meet with multiple advisors and we don't necessarily ask those advisors to come to consensus. It's important that the core, the heart of the story is clear to you. Otherwise, every idea sounds like a great idea. And all of a sudden your script doubles in length because you're trying to incorporate every piece of feedback that you receive. On the flip side of that, though, we want not everyone comes in and does a page one rewrite, but we want that to be on the table. We want you to have a true openness. And so if you come to us and say, look, my script is amazing. It's ready to go. All I need is that Sundance stamp of approval and I'll be off and running. That's not actually the right time to come to the lab. Often people will say, oh, I'm always open to feedback. And I'm like, that's great. I don't want you to just be open to feedback. I want you to have a real appetite to creatively interrogate your work and see what comes of it and have the ability, particularly if you're already working with some kind of partner, a producer, a potential financier, that they also agree that now is the time to sort of, you know, tear things down and put them back together again. So we don't want you to be so far along that our kind of process actually interrupts something or slows the momentum. I have. I was just going to say, I have nothing to say about Blacklist that isn't exactly what we said, except way more eloquently and thoughtful than I could. Literally same. I think we're all completely. Yeah. And I'll say like, you know, especially to the point of like, you know, being ready and willing and have an appetite for like breaking things down and building them up again and really incorporating that feedback like into the core of the work, you know, that is core to our interview process, you know, which is a part of the application process. And we're really able to like, you know, challenge like filmmakers in those conversations to kind of hear from them what they what they see, you know, because a lot of them have been sitting with these drafts for a while, you know, or have, you know, rewritten it five times and, you know, have hit a wall. And so we sort of like that wall. We like it when we need that because it allows us to sort of figure out what what this could look like beyond it. If we just like kind of take take it down, bust it down. So. So, yeah, the interview process is really important to that, because I think we're able to kind of see who is ready for that and who is wanting that versus people that are like, this is just a feather in my cap to be able to get this made. Yeah, and to that, I'll add for the blacklist, at least like we have a long list process, a short list process and also an interview process. And through that, we'd like to select to make sure these people like are not looking for a feather in their cap. They're looking to actually work hard on the project. We ask, what about the script do you need work on? And it's always like, I'm so glad to ask structure. I don't know how to do this structure. Well, it's like perfect. But whenever someone's like, yeah, I think it's pretty great. I'm just ready to give it to you. Like, yeah, that's you're not going to be great in a peer workshop if that's your attitude. So definitely screen for that, too. All what was said is I agree with it all. And I'm going to use some of Alisa's words because I think they were so eloquent. So those will go into my letters to participants, people who want to come. But the one thing is for people to resubmit. We would suggest you not reapply with the same project unless you've done significant work on it and explain why. We do have people who don't get in because we don't have room for them. And I don't like treating those. I don't want them to get a rejection. I want them to get a note saying we'd love you to try again. Happy to refer you to other programs. And I try to be we try to be very meaningful about that. And only for our labs. You can come to our labs without a well-developed draft. You can come with a story idea. But if you do that, you have to demonstrate you've got the capacity to do the work. And it's a well thought out idea. It's not just something you wrote on the back of a napkin on the way over to the house. All right. So anyone who's submitted to anything like this before knows that there's always normally, at least a section where filmmakers have to write about their projects, have to write about themselves. And I'm curious if you have tips for that and taking that a step further. Is there anything that makes an application stand out as either positive or negative or things to avoid? I'll go first. I was I was talking to my deputy director of admissions and enrollment about this just like two hours ago. We will work with you on how to develop a great log line and how to really think about your synopsis and how to talk about your story. But we want to show we want to see that you've made an effort, that you have some idea of how to write it. Not only what you write. The story also has to be fantastic. And especially now with so many applicants, you can tell right away whether it's a great idea or not. And that has to come through. It can't be slapdash together. And so we really look for people to put some effort into it, even if they're new to the industry and for biographies. And we write it on our application. Use a traditional biography. We want to know about you, about your experience, about who you are as a person. And still we get people who send in a poem or two lines or just copy something from a Web site that's not directly applicable. And that's frustrating. And it shows if you're not taking direction on how to do the application, maybe it's not the best choice for you to come work with us. Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts on this because I have to. We're going through the process right now for selecting our writer's lag. And just the past few years, we've been reading a ton of personal statements and stuff where I read a full page and I still just have no idea who the person is who wrote it. It sounds like a cover letter where they say, like, movies are my passion. I have loved movies since I was a kid. Like, yeah, we all do. That's why we're here. You're not singular for doing that. Like, I really want a distinctive voice in the materials that we received. I just want to know it's like I can connect the dots between the script that I just read and the person who submitted this. Like, I want to see that they are clearly the same person and there is a unifying voice there. And similarly, like, for some reason, we have gotten multiple people, not this year, but just in the past, submit a comedy script. And then their personal statement is about how much they want to be a horror writer and how horror is their dream genre. Well, then why did you submit a comedy script? Or, you know, people who submit comedy scripts and then their materials are extremely serious and there's no voice or fun to it at all. It's like, you're a comedy writer. Like, you're allowed to have a little fun with it. Like we don't, like I said, just want a cover letter or anything. And one final thing. I, I'm sick of seeing drama porn as personal statements. I just. You can. I would like to know biographical things that inform what you write and how you write it. But we've just seen so many materials that are just like, here's a list of all the bad things that have happened in my life. That's like, this is just upsetting to read. And I don't really get a sense of me as a writer. I just kind of my heart goes out to you. It's not just my personal thing, but. But, yeah, we just really want a unique voice and a personal statement so we can remember. Oh, yeah. You're the person who is a champion water skier who broke their ankle and then became a writer. Like that. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, our application involves a lot of, you know, what I imagine all of the applications here involve, you know, synopsis, all of the things in the first step of the process. We also require a video, you know, which is really a chance for us to get to know someone and they can opt out of giving a video as well. So, you know, if they don't want to lead with that, that's totally OK. But really, the point of that and in the point of the kind of written personal statement is we want to understand specifically the personal connection to the script. And it can be a comedy. It could be a horror film. It could be a romcom. It could be a drama. But we want to understand why this filmmaker needs to make this film and why they wrote it in the first place. Because really, that's the filter, you know, that we're using for this entire process for screenwriters camp. So. So, yeah, I think the best that they are able to demonstrate, you know, without just being like, this is who I am. No, it's this who I am. And this is why I wrote the script. And this is why I needed to write the script. And here's what you're going to see of me in this project. That that is really what we want to see. And the video is also really helpful with that. So. So, yeah, I think that's kind of what we focus on more than a very well-written synopsis. The only thing I would add for our program, we used to have, you know, just sort of a blanket, you know, thousand word artistic statement. And in the past few years, we've shifted our applications to allow for a brief introductory statement and then ask several short answer questions like 150 word max answer that deal with very specific things that we're looking to know. Like, what are the key themes that you're exploring? What gives your project urgency? Who what's the thing you want to most work on in the script? Who do you see as the core audience? And so I just really encourage people answer the question that was asked and don't feel the need to re-answer every question in every. So we're actually trying to make it easier for you so that we're saying these are the things that we actually want to know and don't feel like you have to write a thesis statement on all of those things. And I think actually the hope is that encouraging applicants to have to articulate the answers to these kinds of questions concisely may actually aid with the ongoing development of the script, because once you have to say it out loud, you can then go into the material and say, oh, but am I doing that? Oh, yeah. I'll say one other thing about this, if I could. One thing that Claire said that resonated. If it's a synopsis for a comedy, it should be funny. If it's a synopsis for a horror film, it should be horrific. You shouldn't tell me that's what it is. You should show me that. And if you're attaching ancillary materials, a website or a reel you want us to watch, we allow for some samples. They have to be really good. OK, great. Have the types of filmmakers or the types of projects you're interested in changed over the years? Are you looking to get away from certain genres or does that not feed into to what you guys are doing as programmers? For me, no, we're really agnostic on genre, theme, tone. We want some notes of hope and uplift, something that audience can latch on to. And we're looking for just stories that are grounded in something specific and potentially universal. Really well thought out. Yeah, I would say the thing that has stayed constant for us over the years is that, you know, our mandate is to identify and amplify folks who have distinctive voices and singular visions and, you know, really need that support in order to get their stories out into the world. Having said that, we, as much as we are encouraging our applicants to take risks and to subvert expectations, we're also trying to do that with our curation. I think there's probably a pretty common public perception of what a Semence Lab film is. And it's probably, you know, a small, intimate, character-driven drama. And we do a lot of those and I love those films. Those are actually like my favorite films. But we are absolutely also open to comedies or thrillers or horror or sci-fi. I think when something is more in that genre bucket, it's particularly appealing to us when it feels like someone is trying to, you know, transcend the boundaries of those conventions or use them to tell a thematically interesting story, as opposed to just a really well executed version of something we've seen before. Completely echoing that, we like to have a diversity of genre in every cohort. So we love it when there's, you know, a horror film and a straight up comedy, something that feels like a very small, intimate drama, and then something that feels like it really needs to be, you know, a larger theatrical experience. I think that scale, again, people think maybe anti-gravity is very focused on like the kind of teeny tiny indie when it comes to emerging filmmakers, but we really love to see, you know, all different types of scale too. So I think the writing process can be really, especially like when it's peer led, can be really beautiful and helpful if people are coming at things from completely different sides. And a large movie is only made better by like really deep character work and interrogation. So like we think that everybody can learn, you know, in that type of environment as well. I mean, once again, at the nail on the head, voice and vision is such a guiding principle for us, especially now that we've split it, the annual feature lab into two different tracks, the writers lab and the projects lab. Projects lab, you know, we just want you to have a voice and a vision for the project. If you're going to be the one directing it yourself, we want to make sure that you see it and you can, it's easy for you to get other people to see it. And especially for the projects lab, which is more commercial, we do want you to just kind of take a big swing and write something with a commercial voice. But that's also something we haven't seen before. And personally speaking, I want more hard comedies. Nobody's writing hard comedies and submitting them to us. I would love to see more of that. We get a lot of dramedies, which are also great. But I just, I love a silly farce. I'd love to see more of that. I will say, though, for our projects lab, we do look at smaller scope things like gravity. We want our projects lab to have a fairly contained space. Since we expect you to direct it yourself, and a lot of these people have done a few shorts or maybe a teeny tiny feature, it's going to be hard for us to bring your project into the lab. Okay, so here's my Star Wars. It's going to cost $150 million to make. I don't know if the projects lab is for you. The writers lab, though, that's exactly what we're looking for. Just probably won't direct it yourself. Yeah, at least said it all much better. All right. So if a filmmaker, for those of you who have multiple programs, if someone feels that their project could benefit from more than one of them, should they be trying to submit for multiple programs at once? Or should they really focus on one thing at a time? I'm not sure what I. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. I don't not sure if I understand the question, but if it's which should they apply to us for? We have one application for our labs and our retreats. So everything's in one bucket and then we sort it like in Harry Potter. But for the long form programs, you certainly can do a lab and then start a new project with a long form program. That's fine. Yeah. And for screenwriters programs, we have our development track application. That's sort of similarly an umbrella application. You don't have to tell us what you're applying for. We'll consider you for everything that you're eligible for. Our director's lab is only open to our alumni. We also do have episodic labs and producers labs. And there are times which are not the norm, but it happens where a project, maybe the writer director will go through a screenwriter's lab and a director's lab. And then they're also working with an emerging producer who is then supported through a producer's lab. But most typically, even if you are working in different capacities or on different projects, you're open to apply to multiple programs at first. But we also talk to each other and it's unlikely we would support you on an episodic project at the same time as on your feature, because the labs are geared in part to build momentum behind this particular project. And we hope that you're applying to us with something that you are ready to sort of make your number one priority in terms of trying to move it forward. Our labs are looking for such different things that if you apply to all of them, we don't know if you're really taking the project seriously. Because if you're like, yeah, this project could work for the writer's lab or the project lab, we're like, I don't think it will actually. I think you fundamentally misunderstand what our program is if you think you could go either way. But also with our episodic lab with which we typically don't like to double dip. So someone's got their episodic lab and then they submit to our annual labs like, yeah, but let's give someone else a chance, please. So unfortunately, we don't usually accommodate people in both tracks. Our two big open call programs, and there will soon be a third, are so different, you know, and they're kind of looking for different things. So for the screenwriters, and we do have people that apply to both and have made it also very far, you know, in both. And it's not to say it can't happen. However, one would definitely probably cannibalize the other, you know, just depending on how they're sitting in the schedule, and it would make it harder for, you know, the person to focus. Our short film studio is more production focused on a very specific short. You know, it's a grant that we do that's furnished by Dolby, and we develop and produce a short with the filmmaker and, you know, carry it through. It's like festival life, and that is just a very different type of process from developing a feature. So while it's not impossible, and we're not saying absolutely no, it's definitely less helpful. And I think we would probably have a conversation with that person to see which one they would be, you know, most interested in doing. All right, great. We got a couple more questions before we wrap up. One of them from someone in the audience who is asking, as an actor, they're curious how they can get involved in your table reads if you're doing table reads. You know, we're not, but I want to, and I think that's something I'll talk to the foundation about. I think the partnership program to bring actors in to do reads would be a great idea. Yeah, same. We don't do it, but love the idea. We don't do screenplay readings. We did pre-pandemic. We do utilize actors in our director's lab, and every year for the past 10, 12 years, we've used the same casting directors, Edith Velasco, Richard Hicks, and then Mary Beth Fox and Jodi Angstreich working in partnership. But it's not like an open submission. We don't hold auditions because it's an extremely compressed period of time, so the directors are not going through a traditional pre-production, so typically they can only consider actors who have a body of work that can be, you know, seen and accessed. We don't really hold a lot of meetings before they invite people, but if folks have reps and they're interested in the director's lab, reaching out to those casting directors in early March to express interest, and that way if a role comes up that is appropriate for the actor, then they can be considered on behalf of the directors. We don't do this as a part of our program, but there's definitely been interest among our fellows, you know, to kind of set one up, and we would be down to help. I think as with anything we do that's open call, the best way to find out is if you follow us on Instagram, Antigravity Academy. Sorry to shamelessly plug, but we always do different opportunities, open calls, things like that, and the easiest way to find out is through there. Great. So you guys are obviously from legitimate, well-established organizations. I'm curious if you have any advice for folks, any red flags that you might advise looking for, for other, you know, labs or development programs that are out there in the world. I mean, I think kind of the best you can say is do your research, you know, use your community, find out if other people have applied for programs, if people have been supported by those programs, if they've gone to those festivals, what kind of experience they've had. I think generally, and this is not necessarily about sort of weeding out bad actors, but even just in terms of deciding where to apply, you know, the shotgun blast is not often the most strategic or fruitful way forward. So really look at, you know, what are the programs being offered? What kind of projects and people have they supported in the past? Does it feel like a sensibility match in terms of what you have to offer and the kind of experience that you have? And also, you know, I know that it's both often a financial outlay and there's a lot of emotional labor involved in putting your work out in the world, and these applications take a long time to write. So just be thoughtful and really only go after the things that feel like an actual match for you and your work, as opposed to sort of the things that you feel like are status chasing. Anyone else? Good? No? All right. At least you win. Well, great. That's pretty much it. That's all we have time for. Thank you so much for spending so much time with us, everyone. I'm sure you will have more questions from folks, but, you know, there's only so much time we can dedicate. Can I say one thing? Yeah, please. I want to pick up on what Holly said about working with people from other areas, because it's a way for me to plug one of my filmmakers. We do take some great documentary experience. Documentary director, first feature, brought a script, worked with us on it. And she premiered, world premiere at TIFF, Lemonade, fantastic film. Kim Bartley's the filmmaker, Barrett Keegan starring in it. First feature, documentarian before this. All right. Very cool. See? So very good. Well, thanks, everyone. And have a great upcoming weekend. Thank you very much. Thank you. Take care. Bye. Bye.