The Business: The Art of Authentic & Assured Self-Promotion

hello everyone does this thing on can you hear me okay good oh I'm so excited we've got such a great panel my name is Laurie Hamill and I'm gonna be leading you tonight through a very important journey that has become part of being an actor putting yourself out there right so melissa has gathered the best and I really appreciate that because we have such a wonderful variety of experience and everyone coming from a different place but a very successful place around social media and other parts of their lives as well so without further ado could we please go down the line and just introduce yourselves and what do you hope to be able to impart to our actors here tonight oi I'm Alex Newell and I have to think on that last part that's right hi I'm Tony and I am a digital strategist for artists I was an actor for 20 years guess my age and thank you tonight I hope to help you balance it all and I think that it is a game and it's learning how to handle it all hi guys thank you so much for being here it's so cool to see a full house tonight my name is aja Celestino and I'm sometimes in the moderating seat and when I am I say I'm an anchor a journalist and a paid-up sag after a member I kind of started out in the world of acting and then took a break for college and to pursue journalism and it wasn't until I kind of rejoined the SAC after foundation that I realized how much this Union and the foundation community is really a privilege so I wanted to thank you guys for inviting me out to give some wisdom and I think the biggest thing I want to impart tonight is some confidence for everyone out there because self-promotion should be something that you're confident about I agree I'm Heidi Dean I'm a social media coach for actors and thank you for having me as well my clients I work with all different actors actors child actors just starting out two Emmy Award winners Broadway stars two celebrities but the one thing I noticed with all of these people who are at all different levels of their career is the topic we're talking about tonight they all struggle with this so I'm really happy we're talking about this because it doesn't matter what level you are at your career this can be hard so I'm hoping in this hour or so that with me and my team here all of us we can you can start posting with purpose and posting confidently on social media and let's do great Alex do it me to circle back no I got it now really good at it um for me I'm just your everyday actor that's it I think what I can impart is I think I'm really really really really good at social media and it's not just because I have a bigger following I've been doing it since it was like a thing I'm 27 I'm a millennial oh 26 I'm still saying 27 but I'm a millennial and so I grew up with social media like I was MySpace and then it was Facebook and then it was Twitter and then it was Instagram and so I think I really have a good track record with it all and a good handle and I hope that I can impart some of that to you all well fantastic you know I came up with some questions melissa has some wonderful questions and then at the toward the end of our talk tonight you'll have an opportunity to pass your questions in so we can answer those as well if they haven't been covered but you know this topic is well there's so many facets of it and part of it is you know you don't want to be that person who either is not doing anything because you're paralyzed you don't know where to start or you're doing some things that are very questionable and then aren't really fitting who you are or what you want to say so first of all I think that people get afraid of going too far and posting something or doing things that are annoying or who knows III will open that guy kind of like dot dot dot but have you ever had just to start out because I love how you guys are making this this is a human thing this is something that everyone no matter where they are in their career has to deal with or their team does have you ever had something that you weren't happy with the way it went or you had a client or a friend that it went in a way that they didn't want or you didn't want but you were able to circle back somehow and and fix it so that we know that you're we're not gonna hurt ourselves by taking some steps forward whether you're someone who hasn't done it before or you're someone who is you know kind of good at it but wants to get better and and learn tonight so have you ever had something happen for you or someone else that was like oops bad and then being able to somehow resurrect it or change it so that it's not a mistake forever anyone want to speak to that oh my gosh all the time even to this day that's why I think it's so cool to be asked to speak on a panel about self-promotion because I feel like what does an expert on self-promotion look like it's not just social media it's the way that you present yourself or the way that you're reaching out to people how you represent yourself as a person so you know I see messages that I wrote on Twitter years ago and I'm like oh my gosh who wrote that it's not me I don't know where that came from and I am totally guilty I've deleted things because I felt like it no longer represented me in the way that I felt like it should and I think that's just kind of like the nature of the beast now with everything on the internet once you post something it's kind of set in stone but the good thing is that you can with self-promotion you can take control of your story and decide which things are front and center so yeah I don't have like one thing in particular that I maybe felt like I failed at or it didn't go the way that I planned or it kind of annoyed someone a client but I I think in general we're all kind of trying to find our voice and reframe what that means for us one of the things that I like to refer to is that you're building a brand you're not necessarily using social media look at the intention and one of the things that I like to refer to it as is a pointillism painting so every single comment every single tweet every single Instagram pose story is a little dot in your painting that adds up to someone's big picture of who you are and so it's just bringing consciousness and awareness to every single little tiny impression you make on the internet and offline and it also gives you courage to say like you know what said that person didn't like my painting that's okay I'm gonna go find the people who like this painting and furthermore talking about mistakes whether its internal or external so topic of the day Jesse small at you know what he does now is going to be over his painting like he has a lot of repair to do because he has ripped his painting to shreds so he has a lot of work to do to add positive impressions in order to win back his brand so that could be that's a huge example but a bad review or you know some sort of minor crisis you have the ability to create art out of that and it's really about what you do next to add up to make to make the masterpiece um I always say like a comment clap back I do those very often I've always loved if someone says I've grown a lot I used to clap back a lot now I'm an adult and I don't do it as much but a clap back I mean I've said stuff in the past and like when I was 18 19 on Instagram and Twitter where someone didn't like me and I said well why did you say that why'd you do that and or someone didn't agree with my post and we had a huge fight and a full thread of an argument now I can go back and delete that and or I can go back and say I was wrong we actually were talking about the same thing just different viewpoints on it so it's like you have to grow and know that you have growth in what you're doing in what you're ding and what you do post in your career wise and self-promotion grows with you and I think you guys have to know there's no such thing as perfect on social media and your feeds your grid is always going to be changing I have clients all the time you know after we work together after they're posting a lot of Instagram they're like well my grid looks so much better now should I go back in and delete or archive everything from the past and for the most part my answer is usually no you know that's part of your story and if you go back to my beginning post they don't look so good either and everyone understands that you know so know that you don't have to be perfect know that everybody is not going to agree with you you know not everyone's gonna like all your post you're not pizza right we're not all gonna agree so you know you have to accept that they're gonna people there are plenty of people that are gonna want to be in your community are gonna want to be in your tribe if you're putting that out there your vibe attracts your tribe so if you're putting that out there what you put out is gonna come right back to you and you're gonna grow the tribe that you want to be a part of does that mean some people are gonna under file you yes does that mean some people aren't gonna like some things you're talking about yes but that's okay you know and that goes for social media that goes for email newsletters subscribers you know so it's your job really to find a way to tell your story and to find a tribe and followers that are going to want to go on that journey with you and kind of on that same note I have to say some people do advocate for those different apps that you can download that show you who follows you or unfollow you I personally don't have them because I feel like it's toxic and it's a waste of your effort and your time I only follow people who I authenticate in or find that their content inspires me and I don't care it's not really my business who follows me or unfollowed me that's just how I see it so talking about not taking things personally because that's sort of what I'm hearing also it's like being willing to be personable because you are you know showing up as you but then having just like everything else in this business sort of having that deciding how how thick your skin needs to be depending on what doing so if someone is you know you can keep yourself crazy by staying up late at night and looking and seeing who's not following you anymore or something like that or you can just like let it go and just keep moving forward and I really liked what you said your vibe attracts your tribe that's really nice yeah UK you went by it quickly so I just want to make sure yeah that would be a nice t-shirt your vibe attracts your tribe that's great and also it's it's nice to hear you say that to Alex about like working on this for so long that you've been you know keep finding your voice I mean myspace obviously doesn't even exist anymore but you were still there and you were learning and you were gathering now do you feel for yourself that it was a specific event that happened that bumped you into maybe more of a confidence about your who you know who you are and what you're putting out on social media uh yeah I was on this reality show called the Glee Project it was right before I started doing Glee and I was the least famous person awfully project sorry not famous but least liked person and everyone else's numbers were shooting up and mine's just kind of plateaued so everyone else had hundreds of thousands and I had like 90,000 or like 70,000 or ten I don't remember it was something lower than everybody else and so I remember just posting video of videos or me singing or me being me or just being stupid as I do and it kept going up and it's not about being instantly having followers it was like kind of the people that my tribe went with my vibe in a way so the more that I was just myself the more followers I got and as I grow the number still grows at the same time it's all about being yourself honestly and like you have to be what you said you have to be willing to have a thicker skin for what you're going to put out there if you're gonna be really really dumb and spew hatred then you're going to get a clap back and you got to get a lash out about that and if you're going to be kind to others know that those people are going to kind or people are going to follow you as well and how do you how can I I'd love to hear you guys speak on what do you feel like is knowing that you're on the right because obviously you know if you get a whole bunch of likes that you're not going to go through every one of those and say oh yeah I remember that person from this and I mean you know if people were following you from a show you may not even know how they know you they've just been part of your tribe for a while so what are ways that you know that especially when people are taking kind of like first steps and or efforts to get from where they are right now to further into reaching a greater group of people what are things that let you know that it is working well obviously engagement metrics you know where social media I would say one of the the biggest just kind of broaden it out a little bit one of the biggest mistakes I see actors making with their posting and is why they feel it's so promotional is that they treat their social media like a megaphone instead of like a telephone so remember the social media is more like a telephone than a megaphone it's about conversation it's about dialogue so the more you can start conversations with people you're going to get more engagement so you're gonna know you're doing a better job and you're not gonna feel like you're promoting all the time because you're gonna you're gonna have a big shift in your social media you're gonna take it from the look at me me me all about me me which is how a lot of people feel and you're gonna make it into a week because you're you're asking questions you're making it to a conversation so engagements gonna be one of those big things because you are gonna be talking to other people it's not just you talking to yourself it's you talking to your fans and followers and there's a lot of ways to do this can I talk about a couple things now please do yes to turn things into a conversation that you can do right away when we get out of here if if you feel that you're going into self-promotion land and maybe you're posting a lot about the same project take that post that you're gonna put out there and turn it into a question that's gonna automatically make it a conversation there's a side effect too you're gonna get more engagement which then you're gonna go well people like this people are responding okay so if you ever feel like you're you're promoting too much just turn it into a question another way another thing you can do that Alex does very well by the way is host post with gratitude so instead of making it just about you and posting about your project that you're doing now or throwback Thursday after throwback Thursday about that project look at me in this look at me in that post make somebody else the subject of your post so make it about that director you worked with or thinking that showrunner or you know make it about the whole cast the whole project or about your fans and followers you went your career grows you're gonna get fan art you know so so throwing it back to your fans and followers so if you can make your post more of a conversation by making it a question by by posting with gratitude and making it about someone else we're making about the project it's not gonna be promotional and you'll know you're on the right track because you are going to get more people responding and it will be more like that telephone conversation instead of that megaphone okay great thank you like to add to that yeah so I call it a moment of spiritual satisfaction you know that do you know what I'm saying when you're like yes I am doing what I meant to do so that's why you chose this profession so if you rewind this comes from Simon cynics work start with why the big word for me is purpose so I want you to answer this question with a verb just like freshman year of acting class I became an actor in order to choose your verb or verbs workshop these inspire challenge educate fill in the blank any ideas then you can take these I call them like content buckets and it opens up a world where you can inspire people through YouTube or inspire them through Instagram then you can go challenge them today on Twitter so it's going to give you more permission in what you can share by starting with the why and the easiest gateway there is I became an actor in order to verb and I'm gonna take that verb and go act in that way on the internet stage I think that's a really good point too sometimes when people think of self-promotion they think of sales or something that just doesn't seem fun but I think if you focus more on putting your purpose and you passion forward and putting out content or messages that make you feel good about yourself that's when I personally find that I see the most engagement or if it's a cold email to someone whether it's like a casting director or an executive producer that's when I see the response is when I'm most myself and I think focusing too on things that are not just about acting that's a big thing I see actors they think oh I was told to be on social media for my acting career so I'm supposed to just post about my acting career but that's not the case you know you're followers of fans they want to know about your project but they want to know how you're just like them so you got to find those connection points you know the rock we're talking about him right before we came in you know he does an amazing job of this we he of course post about his acting you know his acting career but we know about his daughter we know about you know his life is a dad his dog that eats up the couch we know about how much sue she's somebody like that could actually eat right and these are connection points and you're gonna get more engagement once you start letting people into these things outside of your actors life I think it's gonna help you tell your story and and you will start making these connections if I can add a little anecdote please do the documentary dancer with Sergei Pollan one of my favorite things as a dancer dies to death so you like lose your act your dancing career at some point right so he's nearing the end of his top you know his peak performance so he's created this documentary that's one part of his digital legacy so if you think about your social media as your digital legacy what are you putting out there to leave behind but the most beautiful thing of watching this movie is do you guys know his work take me to church she collaborated with David LaChapelle and he's flying through this barn so he then captured you know his peak performance in this beautiful piece of art that will now live forever on the Internet and inspire generations beyond that the thing that made me cry is watching little kids in their living room around the world dance along to YouTube so I want to remind you to not get too lost in the numbers and the metrics much like the audience that leaves the theater or leaves the movie you will not know the resonance of your words your work on the Internet so keep that in mind like take everything don't don't focus too hard on the metrics remember that there are softer benefits that you may never even know about nice that is beautiful that's really great I mean because what you're really talking about is it's something you're gonna have to do anyway right we all have to engage in some way with our however we decide we want into social media so you might as well bring something of who you are and what you know we're trained to do as actors to it I mean that is just really beautiful I love that idea of a digital legacy and who you're inspiring through that and through that work you know something that especially when you're starting out with this is like fine deciding who your audience is because let's say you have sort of a mixed bag you have friends and kind of you know from your past and current then you may have your family members and then there might be some industry folks mixed in there so if I'm going to share a recipe about you know pudding and then you know what my cat you know how cute my cat is when he curls up you know I mean it's it's sort of like okay so Who am I talking to how do we you how do you cover those kinds of bases you know I mean about the things that are personal for you but that you have a mixed audience especially before you have a huge fan base or that you kind of know what those people are responding to so what would you say for that where you're starting and who your audience is hey I think we can all agree that it needs to be a mix of personal and professional so it is okay to post those things you do want to post something of value so you should ask yourself is this share worthy will people care I'm interrupting someone's day if I called you on the phone and I said I'm making pudding would you care are you gonna give me some of the patchouli just about it's like okay why not and then in terms of defining an audience I like to use a formula called The Wizard of one two one two one so this is a business formula and it can apply large to your brand or small to one email one Instagram post etc so what is the ultimate number one goal of this post do I want like someone to watch a video do I want them to click a link do I want them to smile then who is the number one audience and you choose one so you might compose that post for Oprah or you might compose this particular email to your best girlfriends that it feels very personal when someone opens it and then am i representing my number one self is this the best possible version of me and then if you apply those like filters like Instagram filters it's going to help you be more authentic more strategic and just post with more purpose and intention wow I'm loving this you're you're adding just these beautiful layers and and decision-making tools that you can use because there is a there's a strategy to it but also like we're talking really about being authentic and also I think effective I think that's really important and one of the ways you know we were talking earlier about feedback how you know that something is working and moving you forward and we also know that no matter what happens you're gonna be okay you can you know somehow get out of it because everyone's talked about being able to damage control in some way things that we've done so you don't have to be you know so afraid I remember you know early on my mother with the computer thinking you know I'm gonna blow it up it's gonna blow up if I do the wrong keys or something like that you know and it was like it felt real to her and so like when you talk about using all of these different media you know platforms that you've gone through you found how to make it work for you but it doesn't mean that's also that you're doing the same thing that you did when you first start because it's also the platform's aren't the same no none of them are the same you keep growing you grow with the time I honestly it's like when Instagram first came out all those years ago it was so you could take pictures of your food or take pictures of a sunset or a flower or whatever random bug you find on the street it was something that was so frivolous of just taking an instant picture and grabbing it and so now it's come and it's made itself something bigger than what it is larger than life where you can go live on Instagram you can create an entire story that you don't need everyone to see or like you can make your quilt something that's more constructed you can do all these different things and what you could back in the day which was take the picture and then put a filter on it now you can take a picture and have 13 other apps to make you look different and make others look different and be a photographer at the end of the day and Twitter is now something that's evolved than when it was what was it a hundred and twenty characters 82 characters now you can you can limitlessly have characters and keep threading away so you grow with the times and you understand what you're doing and what you're posting and also having a different expression of it all now rather than being on Facebook and MySpace because what was Facebook just for college kids and I think I lied about my age and said a random college and I went to to get on it but it's it's those things and it used to say Alex is and that you had to like write it in third person no it's just a blank thing that you can rent and rave on you grow and you learn with it yeah I love it also because to me it feels as though those platforms themselves grow I think depending on how people are using them so things that used to be limiting to you also that the people who are working to maintain those platforms are also seeing what's working what's not working so not only are we growing and evolving but so are those platforms but I I really respond to your fearlessness around it I mean because you've been using this for some time so you know that you know you can go back and and say I'm sorry you can yeah I mean you use my social media as basically a commercial for me it's basically like a my own little commercial I look at what times I get the most likes I look at times and I don't get the most likes and that changes with age as well because when I was in high school everyone was in school so they couldn't be liking everything that I was posting so I do everything is first thing in the morning or at night it's a little blurb of who I am and what I represent I mean I think my mother is my first post right now because yeah couple weeks ago was her birthday and I was just like happy birthday mom look at you go you're still 50 in my mind but it's a little blurb of who alex is and how I can promote myself and extend my hand to my quote unquote fans my fans really and how they're gonna respond to it in a way I am very fearless because at the end of the day if it doesn't get as many as likes as I want it to or it's hurting me I can go back and delete it and yes I run risk of having someone taking a screenshot of that but someone that doesn't have as many followers as I have don't have to worry about that they don't have to worry about that you can be as fearless as you want to be at when you're first starting and gaining a following you can be just as ambitious as you want you can the sky's actually the limit when it comes to social media because you can make the mistake and then come back and fix it and Tony and Heidi have you run into people that you know being willing to show who you are and your abilities your strengths your wins for some people it feels like it's harder to get out and say something about it to put it out there on social media can you talk a little bit about how you've encouraged people to find something just to get started because they don't want to put anything out there because either it will be wrong or it's not relevant or they just don't have the level of experience with it well I always encouraged my my clients and my students it's actually very similar to what you just set out is that social media is it's kind of like the movie of you right so you get to decide how you get to tell your story you know and that also includes like what's not in your story like any good movie there's gonna be some scenes on the cutting room floor right so the first thing I do with clients or anyone in my online classes as we do an exercise called putting the me and your social media and we really do it's a three page exercise of everything that makes you and awesome your strengths even your weaknesses your hobbies your interests because all of these can become things that you post about right and when you're just starting out this is so important because you feel like oh my god I have nothing to post about but once you do this and and you guys can do this at home - you don't need like my exercise but just really take some time think about you know your interests your hobbies causes that you which support don't wait till you're you know a first lady if you were first lady or first man you know what would your Cosby what would the charity that you would support me you know these are all things you can post about on social media and when you have this plan when you have this idea of what makes you you it's it's so much easier and there but there is a part to here you you can become more fearless you can have more confidence when you know what you can post about but you'll have even more confidence to when you set your limits and you know what you're not comfortable posting about it's really important for the red carpet it's really important for interviews and it's especially important on social media so you know think about the last time you saw an actor like on a late-night talk show there is a hundred percent chance so they told that host you know what topic was off-limits so they didn't have to say nunya business right at that interview so those are what I call your Nana's so you go through this long list of everything that makes sure you and then you go and scratch out your núñez which change over time because we change right so your Nana's right now might be who you love where your worship who you vote for or maybe your kids are your nun yes or maybe your Nana's are that you post about your kids but you don't you talk about your kids but you don't show pictures so these change you know you look at Kerry Washington Hernandez are her kids and her husband but opposite you know side of the spectrum Busy Philipps posts all about her kids and talks about her husband and they're both been able to grow a tribe around these different likes interests and none yes so really if you're if you're just starting out that is the place to start you got to figure out what what makes you you and then what you're not comfortable posting about right now and that's a starting point for everything for your your posts for for everything on social media because it really does start with with you and I would say if you're just starting out or even regardless if you're taking notes right Network and big capital letters and put a box around it because they are social networks they are not social markets so the power is in other people spreading your message creating relationships with other people so to further that just to reframe what social media is old media networks ABC CBS PBS new media networks Facebook Twitter Instagram luckily you have a free distribution deal globally other things people show up to these networks as if it's the red carpet as if it's their commercial so you have to take that into factor when you are consuming media on these networks and it also is your choice of whether you're putting out a documentary a reality show a commercial a movie it's your show don't doesn't matter what Alex is doing or what Tony is doing or what Asia what any of us are doing it's your show and it's your network yeah and then if you are starting out one of the first things that you should do is sync up your address book and then like go follow connect with your existing circle because what happens for me periodically I'll scan my address book and I'll connect with people and then what happens is you or I show up on people you should follow or people you may know and and vice versa so you will see higher level contacts and networking people big ups in the industry show up and you'll be showing up on their feets as well I feel like because we're sitting in a room full of actors and creatives and filmmakers it would be weird to ignore the fact that this industry is something that is so challenging I mean we're going out on auditions and some people find that anxiety inducing and oftentimes you know that instills a sense of doubt and a lack of confidence inherently in this career so I think a lot of the times that's maybe something that you're fighting what I would say to combat that is if you can't see yourself as an actor or creative how can you expect anyone else out there to see you as that mic drop so on that topic of being actors on social media a couple of questions to bring up are what if you're working on a project and you have something coming out and you have signed NDA's and how to sort of navigate around that so that you're not breaking any of the contracts that you signed but that's still you might be able to things to look for ways that you might be able to create excitement with your followers there is a loophole to every contract and every NDA I have signed pannier NDA's I mean the simple thing is you say oh my god Aang's have something coming up can't wait to talk about it oh my god I have something you can do that every single day up until your agent says you could talk about it or for us release I just booked a pilot and it was I could not say that I booked it until the press release came out so I was just like oh my god I'm out partying right now because something great happened to me last night and I've known for like weeks but like you can do these little little tit bits or you can be like oh my god can't like wait to get back on set special project coming up I think that's the loophole about it all you're not talking about it and also you that NDA doesn't say that you can't work any of any other place so it does they don't know what you're talking about no one does it's too vague for anyone to be like you're talking about this project no I'm talking about the fact that I just got engaged or something like that like you don't there was nothing that is holding you back to like it's like a burlesque really I'm gonna be naked but I'm not gonna show you that I'm naked my go-to for things like that is a picture behind the scenes and of course you have to make sure that you're allowed to even take pictures on sets but you know if you're in TV there's always a trailer all the trailers are the same just take a picture in front of the trailer don't be wearing your wardrobe or if you're in like a hair and makeup chair and you are wearing wardrobe I love Instagram because you can just color over your wardrobe and all of a sudden you're just promoting yourself in hair and makeup behind the scenes if I can throw strategies do that like I would definitely funnel people to your email list like say like I'm gonna announce it to my you know insiders first or wherever you want to send them so you could you could bring people over from Facebook or Twitter elsewhere and then keep in mind whatever story you're telling there's a beginning middle and end so that's the beginning the tease then the day of night of whatever tell the during and then after do some follow ups with the gratitude and yeah just keep that in mind that we're now talking about the before part but there's three other phases for that particular project and we all love beginnings middles and ends because we know about that that's the right with our training storytelling so that's great I'm really glad you related that Heidi well I feel like there's probably I mean there's tons of NDA's out there but most of a lot of my clients you know there's just restrictions in their contracts so always you know if you didn't sign an NDA make sure you check your contract because there could be restrictions for what to post when you can post it so always be mindful of that but don't be fearful so with your with your posting about your projects that's the big thing I see actors doing they get so scared though they're you know that that they're gonna give something away that they just don't post about their project at all and every job you do is an opportunity to build your brand and to build buzz for your career so if you ever have a question you know it's not in your contract you're not sure don't be afraid just to find out like contact PR contact the social media for the show and saying how can I help spread the word how and when can I help most of the time the answer is going to be here's when you can do it and here's how you can do it you know they want people to help so don't be so you know just be mindful but don't be fearful about about it you know they they want you to help spread the word as long as you're doing it at the right time so don't be afraid to ask how can I help promote this okay and then there's another side of it and I've seen sometimes friends having to sort of clean up after this happens which is I'm so excited I'm going to be on this show everybody watch please watch I'm so excited it's at this time you're having my trailer I'm so excite you know that you're finally showing the thing with the day you shine you guys know where this is going and in the end you know it's like oh thank you for watching and my scene was really cut down or there was so much more that I did or I had this really funny line and they whatever it is it's a disappointment you know and I've also had friends that my heart's just gone out to them and they said my scene was totally cut you know and that does happen so like I'm just I'm bringing this up because I really want to empower you to be able to make bold choices you know move fearlessly through this and just get engaged and get started and knowing that there's going to be a way to handle as they say put the spin on it so what are your suggestions around something like that was the number one thing I asked my agent when I first booked something because it was like such a small role I was like I want to take pictures during this because it was a show that was really friendly with social media and loves promotion but at the same time I don't want to get my hopes up or how people ask me about it later on if it doesn't work out and she was so smart she was like just posted just show people you're out there and you're working and you're doing things because regardless of whether or not you get on the show obviously it's the best when you make it but you got paid right you're doing what you love you're building your craft just post it people forget they the checks still clears that's the thing you get what you came for there's the exposure as well but you get what you came for you went for the check I mean that's what I go for but like you can't and then if you're seeing gets cut you'd be like LOL jk didn't didn't get make it or you don't but you'd even have to do that but at the you have enough pride in yourself you can be like actually I worked hard you know all the I'm sorry these are all the pictures that I took you know all the people that I made my wardrobe all that good stuff and be like it was a great experience regardless excited about that you worked with James Spader or whoever you worked with you know so there's there's still a story to tell besides the actual watching you on TV you know what happened who'd you work with you know you can you can still tell stories even if you didn't make it you know and so I'm going to further expand this idea of things you shouldn't do just for a moment because this is where you know this this is maybe part of the fear that's keeping some people from moving into this you know and and experiencing this but is the overshare or the inappropriate shares you know what I'm talking about I mean I think we've all seen it but sometimes I don't think maybe that person who's doing that knows that that's what's happening so how do we get honest feedback around that or how can what what are some ways that we can keep ourselves from going into that space I'll jump in here so if you think of it wave networking and you are showing up to the Facebook room you happen to be in the same room as Oprah and Steven Spielberg and ex-director and your mother and your grandma like everyone can see it so that will help you filter what you put out there and in the same way if that were a fancy industry party or a holiday party you show up differently so that's gonna allow you to dress yourself for the party share in the community without over sharing or saying something inappropriate it's just going well if Oprah sees this or if my grandma maybe I maybe I shouldn't post this here on social media so you're what you're talking about is giving yourself some reference points for the platform that you're on because I think you know when we are basically writing something that is either on our computers or on our phones is we're alone you know we don't have a team of publicists that are behind saying do this do that or that we give the information over to and that they are handling it so you you know you really are a one man or one person band at that point you know and so I like this idea of like giving yourself I guess that you could say boundaries but also reference points of what is happening on this you know in this arena if my family or if my employers or my my future dream employers see this post is this something I would be okay saying there's two things you need to ask yourself before you hit post or tweet and one of them is does this honor my contract or NDA and would I be comfortable with my mom dream producer casting director that I want you know that I that I want to you know go in for would I feel comfortable having them see this so the those are really the two big questions you have to ask yourself you know you are what you tweet so like think about it before you put up there anything you put out there it's a direct reflection of who you are and the person they're gonna work with for hours on set or hours in the rehearsal room so you really have to think about you know those two things I do think I do also feel like there has been a shift particularly in social media when it comes to authenticity because initially Instagram was and it still does have this reputation of being filtered platform where everyone puts their highlights and the best of the best I'm living my best life and I'm on a beach somewhere I just booked all of these roles and I think the good thing is that we're seeing this movement of people who are really starting to feel more comfortable in their skin and post those pictures from the jobs they don't get and I feel like those often do get a lot of engagement when you do show you are human you are relatable there's a reason why you should follow me because I'm just like you I'm overcoming challenges and there's something to be said about that when it comes to oversharing but I agree completely it should be something that's in line professionally and also with the image you want to put out there ditto no I mean I we live in a time where there is no such thing as oversharing anymore I mean it doesn't exist we have Kylie Jenner with over a hundred million followers because she is over sharing and it it the Richter scale keeps teetering until it's broken and I think we're living in a time where that scale is actually broken you just have to know how what you're comfortable with over sharing and what the line is for you and your career in oversharing because there's an egg that has an Instagram that has 10,000 sorry 10 million 8 followers just remember that there is an egg keep that in mind yeah the personality of the egg is unbound ly driven so let's I want to give you another excuse why someone might not want to get started on doing some social media they're just too dang busy there's just too much going on how do you find time especially if you're gonna be in this space of oh should I shouldn't die should I shouldn't die I mean what what would you recommend for people to start placing some time to put themselves in the mindset of being able to create something that they would want to share socially is it important for you to people for people to know your story that's like doing all this hard work and getting all these roles and then shoving them in your closet and waiting for people to find you how are they gonna find you if you're not wearing the outfits out in the world so they can complement what you chose I feel like if it really matters thank you if it really matters to you and this is something you want to do and something you want people to know about you make the time to take the quick picture or to write the post or to send the email to reach out to that person it doesn't have to be a chore make it fun however that means for you and I mean social media can be a waste of time and if you don't have a plan I mean and so there are really systems you can put in place that are gonna make sure that you're not spending hours every day I mean think of any social network out there the whole point of that social network is so that you spend hours on it every day from you know the stories to the fee to scrolling down the store you know the feed oh look you forgot about these stories or the suggested videos after you watch one video on YouTube they want to keep you there so if you can set up systems for yourself every day you will you'll be able to maximize your time and get more done and you'll start treating it like a business just like a an easy example would be you know even even finding a time of day to manage your social media so you know this would be checking your comments your replies their messages depending on what platform you're on find a time of day to do this turn off your notifications do not have them coming on your phone all day because you're just gonna get overwhelmed and burnt out and you know and start hitting social media so turn off those notifications unless they're for some like specific people and pick a time to do to to manage your social media everyday and you can align this with something you do every day that's something my clients find really helpful so maybe it's with your morning coffee because you do that every day maybe it's with lunch or a glass of wine as long as you don't have too much or if you're a mom maybe maybe if your mom it's your kids paw patrol time or Daniel Tiger time is your social media time right I just found the moms in the audience I have a four year old so so finding that time that you can manage your social media you know for 15 minutes 10 minutes a day is going to save you so much time so that you're not spending all day getting sucked into that social vortex so for me for you know in my experience setting up these systems and there's a lot of things you can do for your social media help you keep your stay on track and we'll can kind of take that shift that you know make a mindset shift free there that it's not a waste of time and it doesn't have to take over your life you know you are the boss of your social media it's not the boss of you okay and what I like to that you're talking about is really treating it as part of your business plan this is a related thing where I remember a friend was on line four dating but never wanted to go check anything or answer any other replies or you know so it was really hard for the dating app to work for them because they just couldn't find the time or didn't want to or didn't want to answer or go through what it was going to take in order to find someone you know special that they liked but it was like really deciding you know this is what I'm gonna do it if I want to make this work for me and I just think that you know talking about it from such a business point of view you know and I think everyone's been bringing up ways that with networking and ways of being able to show who you are so that it does further you and and what your message is but not to suck you down because you know everybody is I mean you know you're sitting on the subway and you just see every you know the whole line of people you know across the way as you're checking your phone you know and you see everybody else on their phone as well but you you know sometimes it also can become so commonplace that you then don't treat it as something special or a way that you are using it to promote your business Tony were you going to piggyback he was saying I have a client who is an Emmy award-winning journalist and has an aversion to social media and if you work in media it's a part of your job so that's something to keep in mind that you work in media so it is a part of your job if I were to assign a pie chart as I do to my clients here's what that looks like 25% can be scheduled that is happy Presidents Day happy Valentine's Day happy st. Patrick's Day and you've already scheduled that you've scheduled your opening night or whatever so you can sit down on a rainy day and pre-plan or even the night before I have some clients who are really you know heavy publishers and they'll schedule their social media for the next day 25% scheduled that's only a quarter 25% live and I put that in quotation marks because you don't have to go live you don't have to post throughout the day you can actually later Graham that but it's about doing things that are spontaneous that are really current events so that it doesn't come across as an automated robot that you are actually a human being behind that avatar and then 50% is social you have to get in there and interact with people it does require time and yes learning some systems and software to help you sort through the noise to find the nutrients is really going to be helpful and so you can work with someone independently the other thing that I would say is if you get really good at this if you find yourself scattered between acting jobs you could like source yourself out to your friends and say I'll manage your social media for you so keep that in mind that it is not going anywhere and it can be a significant source of supplemental income for you as a storyteller you can work from anywhere - I'm going to Bali I'm going to play devil's advocate because I'm the thing is if you don't feel comfortable with social media and any facet you actually do not have to do it you don't it is it is helpful but there are so many actors if the vessel and the craft is there and the work ethic is there and you keep looking you keep working and you're not posting then keep doing that that works for you it's just another facet of the business you don't actually cuz I go days upon days about not even looking at Instagram or touching it I'm fortunate enough to not have to do that but you don't actually have to post every single thing or anything at all there are actors like what is his name he's in the Kingsmen movies he doesn't have any social media and he will still work because the craft is there so I don't want everyone to think that it's social media is the end-all be-all or such a giant thing of the career and the craft of it all but I do also think this panel has kind of turned into like social media but self-promotion isn't just about media so those actors are booking roles because they're putting themselves out there in some way shape or form whether that means they're networking with other actors and filmmakers and creatives they're going to classes they're finding agents if you never tell someone what you can do they're never gonna know and your connections with your your connection with your fans is a big part of your career I mean that's really a huge part of what social media is and it's why I'm I mean I do agree with Alex that you know not everyone needs to be on social media but the number one reason I get clients is cuz they're sent to me because they have posting requirements in their contract they have to do an Instagram story takeover they're not even on Instagram they have to live tweet on the show that they're now on so it's it's becoming part of your job it's not just you're in you know you're in media and like now you got to do it no it's actually part of your job it's in contracts and yes you can decide not to do it and not and not to be a part of that team you know the part of the team but you at some point it will affect your career in some way I don't want to bring it down but it's why I get clients from from you know agents and managers is because they're they're being told they they need to connect with their fans you know the producers want this so you do need to know if that's if if it's just because you don't want to do it or you don't want to add it to your list of things to do you you might want to give it a try for a little bit because it is becoming part of your job as an actor and I think it is kind of the future if you look at something you mentioned Kerry Washington before and she talks all the time about how big social media played a role in the success of scandal obviously Shonda Rhimes but even something like life times you that then made the move to Netflix a lot of these shows that you see having success are because they have this massive social component and all of these people in the audience want to share it with their friends and their family have you seen this and they're live tweeting while the show is going on they're posting memes about it this is where we're living in the future and to ignore it as our industry is changing is just silly I can bring all of that together you can reserve the real estate you can put a flag in Twitter or on Instagram and leave a post directing people to where the party is regardless and this is not a sales pitch I want everyone to have a website because it controls your Google results if you're sending sending people to IMDB then you're going to lose them to other actors or ads and so you've got to get people the spotlight on you great examples of this two examples Kristen Wiig these are not my clients but I'm just gonna throw these out there Kristen Wiig has a landing page it's stick-figure drawing of her and it says she's not on MySpace not on Facebook but you can contact her agent and her publicist so it is converting for her for the people who are gonna reach out Tracee Ellis Ross has a landing page with a little bit of fun photo three photos of her to be exact with her social icons so she is feeding interest she's collecting interest and sending people to all of her platforms so if you Google+ is gone but let's use that as an example if you're like wow I guess I have a Google+ you would leave a post that says you know what I'm more of an Instagram person come join me over there so you can reserve the real estate not necessarily have to like show up to the party and just point people to where they can find you but get any get a website and also get an email list so expand a little bit on that because you just hit that real quick sorry about the website and the email list talk about how that is helpful to people so I've been in business now I was an actor and I've transitioned into this world and it's been five years of the journey and through that I've created a method which four parts branding website email and social you got to know who you are and who you want to talk to then we build a home for people to visit you on the internet while they're there we want them to either contact you or your team or sign up for email updates which will circle back to social media is the cherry on the sundae it's literally the fun part hopefully that you find a joy for it but it's only a quarter of the bigger picture the reason why I'm gonna say email is because if you grow a huge following on Instagram or YouTube and they change the algorithm or they change the Terms of Service where's your audience so it's a fear tactic but it makes sense furthermore we're all up here on stage we don't know what's happening on social media right now but after we leave here yes he does he's telepathic after we leave here you're probably gonna go check your email at some point tonight and you're gonna get all of these emails so it's a much better way to reach people so email is your digital insurance policy should Instagram algorithm or Terms of Service change you have your audience that you can reach more directly and it's a it's a more effective way of marketing to people what I thought this one was gonna say something about that No well I'll just add though as your your website is going to be as big as your career like I don't know that's a weird thing to say but your say your email is email lists are very expensive to have once your career grows so you know if I had to have I have five I don't know me 32,000 followers in the Instagram right now and I'm trying to funnel all those to my email list you guys need to keep in mind email lists are expensive so when you're just starting out you know you can use something like MailChimp that's free but you know don't get I just want to warn people like don't go up and try to sign up for an email you know CRM and like spend a lot of money to collect an email list okay because that can get very pricey a lot of actors just starting out social media is a great way to collect your fans for free okay and I'm not disputing what you said but email can be very expensive I don't have a big emls and one solutions are one solution is to not actually connect it to any email service provider much like setting your stake in the ground on Twitter have it back up to a spreadsheet so people are signing up to your VIP list or to be the first to know and it's just a list of names and emails so that when the time comes that you have a book to promote or an album or a one-man show you have the list of people to email directly so you don't have to sign up for it until you're ready but definitely start collecting those names and emails now because it is your insurance policy and are you saying then to funnel your people that are ants following you on social media to then follow it it's like backing up your computer okay so I mean you're literally asking them please send me an email at this email address or sign up on this or wait what exactly are you saying well no one wants to sign up for a newsletter so you have to give them something of value and so for most people this worked with a bar that I worked with speaking of a crisis that I like came in and tried to help and we created on their landing page join the VIP list and thousands of people signed up and we promised them just to be like get a few perks so don't call it a newsletter call it your VIP list they're gonna be the very first to know when you have something major to share you're going on tour you're doing a concert whatever it may be treat them like your insider fanclub and and that's what you're promising them is that like they're they're like your best friend or your family member where social gets like second dibs I love that and you know it's interesting because you're so used to this that I just wanted to just you know slow it down just a second just so everyone can understand it and and the logic behind it because you know being a part of a VIP list not that sounds really that sounds really nice you know people are letting you in on something and I feel like you know graciousness is also such a part of this because when when you're talking about like it being social you know network rather than social marketing that those kinds of things you know just like changing the verbage sometimes can help so that you feel like you're not just you know a salesperson knocking on door to door there's enough of that being an actor you know with getting your reps with getting work so to be able to it really sounds to me like you're all saying from different viewpoints it's like you can make it your own you know you can decide how much you want to do but I've really heard are some different ideas is tonight of ways to approach it that make it more personal because we don't want to have to engage in something that is no fun or that you feel like you're I don't just blasting stuff out there but I love the idea of engagement that word has been used a lot tonight and meaning that you're getting people that are sending things back to you in some way so that you know whether that would be likes or it would be people posting asking you asking question them answering those kinds of things that make it more personal would you say that feels right I'm a I'm I'm a firm believer I do not do post anything that I do not want to post I mean I can't tell you how many like advertisements I get to post about and they'll actually send me what I need to pose word for word and I will send it back like I'm not going to post this word for word because that's not Alex Newell that's not who I am that's not what I'm going to do also with being on Glee sorry my I didn't show on probably called once this island and they were all like it's social media have you at social media have you and I was just like absolutely not I can't if you want me to do it you can come to me and I'm going to do it with you but or you gonna you're gonna pay someone to do it for me I do not like fake posting I want everyone to know I'm my brand of me being myself and I think that is genuine and it's very authentic because you're letting someone know just a little piece of you because you're not always gonna have People magazine following you're not always gonna have all these giant publications following you all the time so you can control and do whatever you want with that yeah that's great so we are going to have some questions I hope that you were able to pass them in so that Melissa got them if anyone else has the last-minute question you know I just feel like sometimes when when something's in front of us that we want to digest that we want to make a part of us you know looking at this as being such a you know talked about video you're talking about media but you're also talking about visual that's very very visual when we're sometimes you'll find that people will just write something and not have a picture attached to it or not have a video but it seems as though they already have a relationship with their audience so that that doesn't have to also be something that is a picture that's posted on there and to me that feels like they know who they're speaking to and who's coming back you know what's coming back to them do you find that I mean do you are you always saying like the clients always put a picture up they're always put a video that that has to happen that way I think for engagement you know everything in social media is going more toward video so videos and photos do get more engagement depending on what platform you're on but the platforms are different I mean I post text all the time on Twitter and get that some of my posts that don't have pictures get the best engagement I always tell people and clients when you're making a post think about three different things what do you want them to see how do you want to make them feel and what do you want to make them do so that first question is what we're talking about what do you want them to see I mean it could just be text but but it could be a gif it could be animated text it could be you know a story and there's a million options on Instagram with you know is it a superzoom what do you want them to see you know so so yes pictures videos get a little bit more engagement but you know mix it up try different things and always ask those straight three questions what do you want them to see cuz it's not always about the visual it's about how do you want to make them feel we we talked about the some point tonight you know how do you want them to feel do you want to educate inspired you went to entertain them and then what do you want to make them do do you want them to DoubleTap so you want them to answer a question do you want them to direct message you what do you want them to do so if you always follow those three things I think regardless of whether there's a picture or not and of course it's different on different platforms you're going to be more successful with your posts so always just remember what do you what do I want them to see what do I want how do I want to make them feel and what do I want to make them do and I think that good writing is a form of media so and it really depends on your gift so if you're funny maybe you actually do better on certain platforms using text only or maybe you make really funny videos or maybe you have a beautiful eye and you're able to create great photos so definitely pay attention to what you do really well and like tap into that just like there are some clients who have a podcast because they hate writing so they're really great about just talking but they they freeze when they have to go type something that being said most social media has a caption regardless so it is I would say definitely don't forsake writing and like learning how to express and in that medium and to be in your voice and it sounds like also to be in your truth and finding your strengths with that so we have a question for everyone here on the panel and this is from Shara with email blasts over and over I see only 20% is opened and that is considered good how can we make that more strategy Thank You sheriff the first thing I think if you're doing well that's great I wouldn't call it a blast it's a letter that you're sending out and if you if you're again focused on metrics like if you just want to do that I would say start segmenting your email so that instead of sending out to everyone and only getting 20% look at the 20% that's opening and see if you can attract more of the right people or just send out more specific messaging to each group of your audience so my group with putting my group with my cats you know I want to make sure I I'm sending to them and and giving them the good news about those topics I don't know why it just sounds so delicious but anyway so this is from Claire how do you best utilize social media when you are not working great question Claire thank you so I want to take that well I think we talked about a little bit earlier is that you're not always posting about what you're working about what you're working on right so you really need to think about the different aspects of yourself that you're gonna post about beyond your actors life you know an Instagram I call this your Fab Four so you're four things that make you fabulous and awesome one of them is probably actor's life now there might be a second one if you're a writer or a content creator that's also you know acting you know artists related but the other ones are gonna be about you being a mom or a vegan or about your dog you know there's gonna be other things that people are going to connect to so you're not always posting about your actor's life if you are you're gonna always constantly be asking what do I post because even the biggest actors don't work all the time so if that's all you're gonna post about you're gonna always be asking what do I post so try to find a balance between your actors life and your personal life and that's going to help you out a lot where and also Alex you were talking about the post that you made about your mom yeah I mean you have different things that you can post about even if you're like all I want to focus on is my acting career post you reading a new script post you reading a new book post you going to an acting class or an improv class there were those are things that working on the craft you can do stuff like that I think that's cool and interesting to see because you don't see a lot of that you see everyone be like I'm on site look at me being fierce and fabulous well and also it's something that you know we were talking about authenticity and obviously I mean you love your mom and you know she loves me I gave birth to her no I mean like you there are other facets like post your best friends post you at dinner go back to the original Instagram or the in original Twitter like what it was made for to show you as a person not a career so many great phrases we're getting tonight I'm really loving this okay so Carmen is saying coming back redefining my career what are some effective steps slash criteria for websites and gauging websites one of my favorite stories is mindy de Lacy you can go check out mindy de Lacy calm this is an actor who worked for 25 years on Rodeo Drive in the fashion industry and decided to go back we built a website together and the one thing I would say is hire someone you need strategy anyone can build a website but you need it to get you results so it is an investment to make much like headshots or reals it's actually international in 24/7 so box over mindy put out her website and started reintroducing herself to the industry you've seen her on feud she's in the sequel to The Human Centipede movie they'll really wacky one but here's the deal she booked that job through Twitter this like this avant-garde director found her and gold went and looked at her website and offered her the job on Twitter so that's one of my favorite clients stories because you're it's never too early it's never too late but you do have to be able to be found and discovered and so and then the social part of it is sort of like here's the real me the website is like here's the you know business side I think and it doesn't have to be there's exceptions to every rule but um that's that's sort of a nice way to start and the circling back you got to be good at what you do so if I open up a pizza shop and word got around that like it's yeah so so it's not gonna last very long so all of this is like extra on top but you gotta it's the icing you got to have the cake first and Mindy de Lacy I love you Mindy and as far as you know the website it reminds me of like you know electronic press kit is basically you know it's just like it's kind of like that those are your specifics these are the things that you can do and then it's like usually on your website then of course and you say and then go and find me on social media as well and a website is a great way to collect your fans and other ways to I don't know how many content creators we have but we you know right now adays there's so many actors that are also content creators there's so many multi artists right so if you have a website as an actor and for your content and you have a Facebook page I want you to go home and put a Facebook pixel on your website go and you probably know how to do that on your own so Google how do I put a Facebook pixel on my website you can do this if you have a Wix site a Weebly site any kind of site a WordPress site and what this does is it tracks everybody that goes to your website and this is so important as a content creator okay so it's a Facebook pixel and what you can do is we use an example right now I'm working with an actress right now who is has a one-woman play off-broadway and it's actually just opening right now and she contacted me five months ago to work together we set that pixel up five months ago if she would have called me yesterday it would have been way too late right we have been collecting fans in all different ways people visiting her website we have been collecting audiences from Instagram from Facebook it's an amazing tool guys so your website is also a great way to collect audiences because what we can do with these audiences is once your show opens or if you're doing a web series now we can retarget them for very cheap because you are collecting this audience it's kind of a big technical conversation but you can serve pretty inexpensive Facebook ads to them so that they will see your content so that they will come to your show it's actually an amazing time to be an actor right now because 10 years ago this was not really possible and now you can literally sell out your show because uh with because you're taking your website you're taking social media they work hand in hand and you're tracking these people that are interested in what you do and the the contact is the content you're creating so if we have any content creators here or watching later on please put that pixel on your site because you are collecting those fans so that you can then retarget them it's a terrible word but so that you can then tell them about your projects so that they can come and see them it's really really important and really an exciting time you know to be an actor because we can't do things like that thank you we have one last question and it's a long one but let's go for it so Justine says I'm very political politics is big for me but it can be controversial why did I read this question there's gonna this is gonna be like an hour we're gonna talk about this but I've been able to unravel my Twitter from personal professional versus political and it's been easier to do easier to do that not the case with Instagram my personal facebook however what are your suggestions here I sometimes hide certain posts from an industry friend list on Facebook but that's not that's really effective and I don't that's not really effective and I don't do it much so it's basically this political boy we're bringing this back up in the last couple of minutes here but let's just address this very quickly if we can get a blog okay under a different name if you're part of yourself there's a reason so maybe just don't even put in the effort to post about politics if you think it's gonna come back and bite you yeah think about is it really important to your career if you're using your social media as a business you know are your politics part of that and if the answer is yes that's cool but just know that everyone out there that's gonna hire you might not have your same beliefs what I do tell people because I don't want actors and artists to lose their voice obviously is if you're going to if you're going to talk about controversial subjects which don't just have to be politics there's lots of them but try to tweet or post about what you're for instead of what you're against okay because then you're gonna be seen in a positive light everything is taken out of context on social media you know people pull up tweets from forever ago and they don't know what the whole conversation is now we've got all our threads and so if you're always posting you know what you're for instead of like from the negative what you're against it's you're probably gonna be safe so it's really important to you always think about that okay almost piggybacking off of having a blog have a fence to house something that is not attached to your name that's still accessible like you can flip back and forth profiles and Instagram and Twitter and on Facebook at the end of the day and just do use it that way I mean you shouldn't have to like have a marketing business side of an Instagram social media but then have something that's just you and you can curate who you want to follow you and curate who you follow back and that saves you a lot of pressure and time and effort you if you don't want to just be bold and posted in one specific place because social media is there for marketing and it's there for personal gain at the end of the day it's no just for marketing even if you are just an actor or singer dancer model flat twirler football player politician all that good stuff fabulous now if you're watching this at home because this is being taped that you'll be able to see everyone's name here and you'll be able to go and find them so but pardon I said who is it like right down here yeah just look right down here in this video right down there but I really I really appreciate you sharing with us your personal strategies your professional strategies I know that Tony and Heidi both are out there helping actors so you can find their sites if you are interested in finding out more about what they're doing and of course to be able to follow everybody I just think it's really exciting because you have all made this work for you and I think that's what this all has been about and I really appreciate Melissa bringing this topic into our our series you know here are the SAG Foundation sag AFTRA foundation because it's just such an important aspect of it but she really said authentic you know bringing your authentic self and I think you've just given us so many opportunities to do authentic and also very effective you know strategies things that work for you so I really I want everyone to be able to thank you for bringing who you are to us tonight thank you [Applause]