Casting directors, voice directors, an agent and working actors on the state of games in 2026: the market, celebrity casting, performance capture auditions, dubbing, session stamina and AI.
12 Things Actors Should Know About Video Games in 2026
Drawn from what is actually said on camera, so you can decide whether to
spend the 1:29:22 watching it.
Medium-sized narrative games are coming back
The agent on the panel calls the market wobbly after consolidation froze some studios, but net positive overall. A director adds that the push to make everything a live service multiplayer game has largely collapsed, and studios are talking about more medium-sized, story-driven single player games. The acting work on those is almost as deep as on the giant ones.
One panelist points out that recent award sweepers Astro Bot and Balatro have no performances in them, and thousands of Steam releases a year have no voice either. In games, actors are often the icing rather than the cake, which is why agents cannot negotiate the way they do in film and TV.
A casting director says the actors who book over and over are mostly people who eat, sleep and breathe games, and compares skipping that to auditioning for a musical without ever seeing one. Others say watching playthroughs on YouTube counts, but everyone agrees there is a learning curve to the format, like knowing what a bark is.
A director warns about newcomers whose only creative input is games or anime. At the top level it is acting fundamentals and artistic perspective that book: take improv, get good at cold reading, and learn to play with childlike imagination but adult intention, because sessions demand all of it.
One panelist argues private equity money is pushing studios toward film and TV names. Another, who runs about a thousand sessions a year over 25 years, counts roughly a hundred celebrity sessions in that time, and says most clients balk once they hear what a star costs, because stars do not work for scale.
Casting wants pcap tapes that are not waist up and not planted on a mark: if you do not move, the animators get no data. Block it like theater in the round, with intentional movement that shows how the character lives in the world. A real prop is fine, since the volume uses placeholders, and a self-tape studio background is not required.
You will never hit the exact read in the director's head except by accident, likened to shooting an arrow around a corner. Make a compelling choice instead. Even when it is wrong for the role, casting keeps a folder of those auditions, and one actor was booked as Lex Luthor off a tape for a maniacal cat three years earlier.
The fastest skip in a casting session is the same read twice. Use any clue you can find, such as the studio, the genre or how short the lines are, because a read for GTA should be nothing like one for a cozy farming sim. If you send a second take, make it a different game.
A director who also does live action dubbing says game voice needs a little extra support, resonance and clarity that film dubbing strips out, but it cannot sound forced or theatrical. Diction still matters on a grounded line, because a player cannot rewind a bark, and a mumbled hint about which door to open is still information.
Sessions can mean hundreds of lines, swinging from a dark scene to a bright one in seconds. Several panelists call it athletic: less about preparation than conditioning. Know your voice well enough to ask for water or a break before you blow it out for the rest of the week.
In the booth the director is often your only flashlight, and the person behind the glass may be new to it too. Ask concrete questions, like how far away the other character is or whether he is your father, and request the script the night before through your agent. It makes their job easier and teaches them what the next actor needs.
The agent says the new interactive media agreement contemplates AI and ties some terms to the first 300 lines, but nobody yet knows how the rates will pay out. Her advice: do not react out of fear, ask why AI is being used and whether a human could do the job, and if you take the work, report back to the union so the next contract improves.
[music] Thank you everybody for joining us. So, we're here to talk about um where the video industry industry is as of today, September 2026, where we think it's headed. This is a little bit of an open-ended question, but I wanted to start with um what you've noticed that's currently happening in the industry and um how you think this is affecting uh your work. So, have you noticed any trends or changes that have come up? - All right, let's just jump into this, shall we? Let's get let's just go straight into the deep end. There's a ton of technological change. There's fant I've seen fantastic evolution in acting. Like speaking to the actor side of all of us here, um the technologies come so far that we previously had to sort of, you know, juice our performances slightly to make it lend because the visuals hadn't quite caught up to us yet. But now technologies come to the place where we can do the same thing we could do in film and TV where thought registers on the mic or in the volume if you're doing pcap. It's a beautiful place to be and directors are more important than ever. [laughter] We're also entering an era of an enormous amount of uncertainty.
And I think more than ever, there's a lot of pressure on actors specifically to adult the heck out of this business and not be reactive, to be thoughtful when information comes across and pause. Like read your contracts. Don't just flip when you see the words, you know, things like AI. Stop. inform yourself because I think from my perspective it's important to evolve with the technology not to other it because there's so much polarization in the world. We don't need any more of it. We need more understanding. That's just what I see today. - Uh Heather, um just to jump in, I was I was curious also from your perspective like what the market looks like for actors from an HD perspective right now. I mean, we have had a couple rough couple years, you know, and and coming off the strike though, I will say it took a while for companies to figure out what they were doing. So, they were like, "We're getting started. We're figuring out what we're doing, you [laughter] know, right now.
Give us a moment." Um but I will say this year really quite a few games have gone full steam ahead and it there are a lot of this is happening not just in this industry but in you know it's happening in in television film and it's happening I think in general across all industries is the condensation of companies and corporations buying companies and when that happens people freeze. It's like it kills creativity, it kills development, it kills progress. And so you have some companies who are in spaces where they're full steam ahead right now. And then you also have some companies that are experiencing change and condensation and they don't know where they're moving yet, but I I do think they're going to move forward and we do see quite a bit of activity in the space because we see it across every company, you know. So, so when one company's not necessarily having it, other companies are, you know, and so I kind of describe it as a little wobbly at the moment, but sometimes it's like everything's on fire and it'll be slow down for a second and then everything's on fire. So, I I do think, you know, the experience of that from from our perspective is that there's a lot more overall work when you really look at a you know, is it net positive? The answer is yes, it's net positive overall. I I'd love to offer something um positive because there's certainly as with every aspect of the world at the moment, there are a lot of things to be concerned about, but um there's a few things going on in games that I think are really good for actors and acting. Uh one of those I think is that um the trend towards uh everything being a multiplayer live service game has pretty well collapsed. And um I've had conversations recently with people in XDEV and places like that where they are talking about a mandate to make more really good medium-sized games, typically more narrative driven, a return to having a robust single player games market. And from, you know, a a an acting perspective, the narrative difference between a a gigantic game and a medium game from the from the acting side is actually not all that different. So more medium games, much the same way we're seeing in, you know, the the sort of resurgence of independent film, means overall more jobs and more opportunities creatively, I feel like, to um, you know, explore the breadth of this art form.
There's only so much you can do, you know, running around calling out battle. And if that's the bulk of the game, it's important, but it's not necessarily deep. Um, but with more narrative work coming back, we get some opportunities to do really interesting. - I meant to actually say that there that there's been a lot of independent games coming through as well. - Yeah. Yeah. - This is so interesting. thing. I mean, I think one of the advantages I have having, you know, done this since I was in high school is that I've seen the cycles and I remember watching music because I started as a singer in clubs and I remember watching music tighten and condense just like you said and it the decision-m narrow, the creativity narrowed like the whole thing was like, "Oh no, all the funds over and then it was the indies who punched through and busted things open." It I think it's just part of a normal cycle and if that is helpful to anybody who's newer to the industry, I think Kell's point's a great one. People tend to jump to fear because we love certainty, but there's nothing wrong with uncertainty is just is scary if you choose that. It can also be exciting because the world's wide open. It really is.
And we have so much potential to be creators ourselves and co-creators and all these incredibly exciting things if we stay keep our attention on what is working. There's a piggybacking off of that, it's not just actors that are responding in fear and going with gut instinct and uh you know sometimes like the sky is falling. It's it's everybody. So this is really one of the first times that the world has has at the same time had a macroeconomic uh decline at the same time across all nations. It's crazy. It's it's actually like it's it's wild if you study economics. Um so and that's reflected in the games industry as well. So what's happening right now from my perspective uh is that for the past couple years we've been seeing a lot of major players in the video game space making really safe choices and the safe choices when made across the board across all developers are creating games that are not really standing out. So I think that there's going to be large opportunities for creative risk in the near future because if if companies aren't going to start taking those risks then they're not going to be able to sell product. So that's that - I think the only thing I would add is is yes the there's this tumult in um practices and budgets and scope and and business strategies um that are that are contracting and doing what they're doing. There's disruptive technologies like AI and all of that kind of supercharges a conversation. I think I'm going to divide between teams that really natively embrace and understand performance and folks that kind of don't.
For folks who don't necessarily culturally like a developer team, it might be seen as an add-on. And so there's this like internal debate about whether we're going to spend on performance and see it as kind of like a garnish or like a top layer, a decoration. Um, and um, and so it's just kind of but that's always kind of been there. That's like that conversation has been something I've been advocating for and kind of inserting myself in to advocate creatively for performance for a very long time. So that's kind of eternal. And then the folks who really do understand performance continue to understand performance and appreciate performance and and that kind of debate isn't there. So it's like these are new recent intense kind of injections of um of uh volatility that are kind of, you know, uh enhancing that debate internally for teams. Um, but there's also continued, you know, seeing seeing players respond to performance and value performance and teams that really understand what it's doing for them in terms of gameplay, not just as like um, you know, a fun, you know, cut scene here and there. Um, that's like, you know, an accessory. Um, that's still eternal and I don't see that going away necessarily. So - I think the best indicator of that is the rise of the sort of like tertiary convention industry - which runs on appearances by actors. - Um that really like exists for that reason and it's gigantic.
And if you think about it, it makes sense. What is Marvel Rivals without the performances that Michael is capturing? You know what I mean? People form their parasocial relationship with these products through your performances and uh it's not just good creatively, it's good business to um invest in that side robustly. No matter what kind of product you're you're making, whether it be long form narrative or multiplayer or whatever, um it it definitely is how you get loyalty amongst the consumers and engagement with um you know, physical products, toys, apparel, etc. Um is by investing in something people can make an emotional connection to. So it's it's a loadbearing part of the industry right now. um regardless of how individual companies see it. - Um I I would like to just mention because we are in a performer forward environment um that it is also important to remember that the game industry does not uh solely rely on performer-led games and you know the year before the uh you know the awards from last year the year before that uh it was Astrobot that swept the awards and Bellatro that swept the awards. Neither of those games have any performances in them. And so we're competing against that. We're competing against the thousands and thousands of games that are released on Steam every year that have no voice, have no performance.
So while I do believe there is a lot of opportunity, the game industry is much bigger than a performance-led project. So I it's just important to distinguish that because it is very different from the other, you know, industries that we work in. And I think inside SAG, just to tag on to this point and the larger picture we're all visiting right now, inside SAG, so much of what SAG does and advocates for are things where you have stars and you have performer-led vehicles, but games are very unique because we're icing. We're not all we're not cake. You know, we we tend we are cake in some projects, but in other projects, you know, it's a muffin and we're, you know, we're a lot of icing, but in other ones, it's a big cake and we're a little icing. You know, we we don't lead in the same way. And I don't, you know, we're not stars in the same way. Like agents don't get to negotiate in the same way, you know, give me the muffin. Yeah, I'll take that over the weekend. [laughter] Yeah. Essentially, you bring that up because I wanted to talk about that at some point in terms of um casting for games. Like some games are like I think more and more games are having like a name attached to them and then sometimes they're not.
Um, and I wanted to sort of, I guess, segue that into the conversation of as actors, um, who want to have a career in video games, do you think it's important that actors explore other lanes? I think earlier on it was easy to find a lane and stay comfortable with it, like I'm a voice actor, I'm going to do this, and I feel now a lot of times maybe it's beneficial to explore the areas of performance. I think it completely depends on the performer and Heather can back me up on this and the others but um if your you know love and passion is for audiobooks and voice then it is okay to want to stay in that lane. Um that said I think the lanes are going to disappear. That's my philosophy. I don't think that there is uh such a distinguished difference between all of these media points. I think as we're, you know, pushing IP further and everybody is talking about trans media and all these things, the lanes to me are are boxes and labels that will eventually go away. We're going to access a story and how we're going to access it is going to depend on the medium. So for performers, being well-rounded with technology and how you're being captured is important. So understanding if you're getting just voice, if you're getting body, if if uh what aspects of your performance are going to be in in the project, uh and knowing how to best hone your craft as a performer, it doesn't matter what the tech is, you'll be fine as long as you can reach a authentic performance. - There's I I agree with [snorts] like 90% of what you're saying. There's a there's an element of a skills gap there though that does exist.
And uh I this this comes up often uh when I'm talking to actors. Um there's when you are competing for roles and when you are in the booth um you have to understand that the people that are rising to the top, the people that are booking over and over and over again are predominantly gamers. There are predominantly people who eat, sleep, and breathe games. Um, and so yes, you can land these roles without having that deeper experience, but it's kind of like, you know, it's kind of like auditioning for a musical having never seen a musical, right? It's just like you could, but I wouldn't advise it. And I think that with the level of competition that's out there right now, I wouldn't advise it. Um, so there is a skills gap. So to say to jump from one lane to the other or to that the lanes are going away, so you need to, you know, move to another one. I there is some truth to that. but to do it without recognition that there is a learning curve that's going to need to be applied as well. That it's there's going to be work between here and there. I think that's super important to to get across as well.
- Yeah. I just found out Erica Ishi is here. So, we're going to welcome her. - Yes, Erica. Yes. [applause] Welcome. Welcome. Awesome human. Oh my god. H I Yeah, do that. And then I I want to address this as well. Welcome.
Hello. [clears throat] - She's awesome be here. Hi everyone. [laughter] - Um, just to talk about this one, I deal a lot with people coming up. Um, and and I've, you know, beat my way up before they were agents or anything before. I'm not even going to go there. Anyway, um, when you're an actor, you're a business person. I call it entrepreneur. You're a business person. You are a performer and you run your own business. And when you run your own business, you're going to have cyclical areas, cyclical. you're gonna have cycles and you want to ride up and down with those cycles in a single genre.
That is totally up to you. I like economic stability. So, the formula I always share is look, pick a genre, get your foundation first, pick a genre, build skills in that genre, you know, and then get your marketing machine together, that is your your representation, your system for generating auditions on your own, your demo, all those things, right? Get that particular product, if you will, up and running. then you go build another one, build another genre. If it's games, then you build audiobooks so you're stable. Look, you're gonna be in fashion and you're gonna be out of fashion. And it's got nothing to do with you. So, the more diversity you have in your skill set, the better off you are. And just look, I can't play a single game. [laughter] So, I don't qualify in Michael's book, but I I do throw down with heart and soul and all I have, and that's what I have to offer, you know. - Yeah.
Yeah. I um I'd love to add to that a little as well. I think that Michael's absolutely right that you wouldn't audition for a movie if you'd never seen one, right? Do I think you need to pick up the controller? Not necessarily. Um I think though that there's a lot of ways to experience these things. You can do it firsthand, in which case you'll have fun. You can watch it on YouTube and and still learn a lot about it. I think the that's one book end of this conversation. I think the other one is that the most important thing in this format as in every other format of acting is acting fundamentals. Imag the ability to do uh childlike imaginative play with an adult intention. You you know if you want to be I I see actors coming up all the time now this what used to be unheard of who want to be in games.
They didn't set out to be movie stars. they set out to be in video games or anime, things that used to be pretty niche. Um, and some of them the only thing they've ever interacted with from a creative perspective are games or anime or whatever their single defining passion is. And that's a problem - because when you get into the highest level of this kind of work, it's acting fundamentals and uh and artistic perspective that are going to make us book you. You have to know all the the fundamentals of the of the uh format and understand what a bark is and you know how those things work. Absolutely. But if you want to be a great g actor in games, be a great actor. You know, take improv classes. You're cold reading in games a lot. You don't get those skills by just playing video games or studying video games. You get those skills by learning to Yes. hand and to dive in fearlessly and and to enjoy your work um under pressure.
Uh and those I think are like fundamental acting skills that are valuable in every place where acting is part of the work. Um and you if you have not uh also observed that end of this spectrum then there's only so far you will go in this format as with any other - I think you were I'm going to top in I think you were trying to say at least of what I interpreted your question as was whether or not actors need to because you mentioned celebrities in games right whether or not actors need to get into television and film to get back into games and I think what you're hearing is no - because not one person besides me interpreting your question that way. They were all like, "No, just be a great actor. That's what we want to hire." And you know, - I would I would vehemly disagree. Um actually right now today because um uh private equity is wrecking our industry and now Thank you. Thank you. I'm sorry. Um but uh studios really want a safe bet and to them that means number go up if celebrity in game and also a lot of the developers and the private equity guys are desperate for Hollywood to notice them. They love celebrities and so they'll bring on celebrities that are like oh I've never played a game and games are for kids but my kids play games and but this seemed pretty interesting. Every time there's an interview with an actor who's from film TV, they're like so shocked and appalled and surprised that they're just learning about games. And I think that yeah, unless you're working in indie or making your own stuff or working with like tried and trueue like veterans in the industry, most of the time your lunch is going to get eaten by a film TV celebrity. Just following up on that, it is since the pandemic, uh, the access for TV folks and film folks into games has increased significantly.
When everybody was stuck at home, all of a sudden they were trying to figure out how to uh, you know, figure how to work and voiceovers there and all of a sudden these TV celebrities are able to get uh, jobs where they can go in and be at home with their kids at night and not have to go away for 3 months to shoot or a year to shoot. It is very convenient especially as people are aging up and not wanting to do all that crazy travel and stuff like that. - So it is very like there are so so so many TV and film actors being considered now. Uh - and they'll get priority because they have a high rating. Not always. A lot of times we book a we do book a lot of just voice actors. So like I want to be honest that like we like we book a ton of we also book TV film people. My question is, how many of the people that are just voiceover are able to make a full living just doing voiceover? And how many of them are making most of their living signing autographs? - They're doing both, but a lot of our actors are they're doing across different areas. So, they are I mean they do commercials as well. They do like it's we have a lot of people who are making their living in voiceover.
Yeah. - I think we're also missing like a distinction. It feels to me and maybe folks can agree or or not around there's like two sections of cast in a game most of the time, right? you have a performance capture principal cast oftentimes um and for that they're looking for you know visual self tapes and and obviously I think on camera experience is considered or expected or something you know like that that's a skill set that's being used there and then you have traditionally speaking um a large uh number of that fleshes out the cast and is maybe the majority of the actual cast of um additional voices and featured characters and things like that that are not necessarily on the per performance capture stage that are more voice that may be more voice actors where they're not doing they're doing you know MP3 self tapes and they're expected to differentiate their characters in session and and there's just a a sort of different kind of athletic gauntlet that's expected of them versus being on a performance capture stage. So like we're talking about I think maybe two sets of criteria um depending on what part of the cast you're considering right now. - I'm glad you brought that up because I was going to ask something along those lines. So you know I'm I'm primarily a voice actor. So when I work in games I'm mostly doing voice. Some people primarily work in games as PECAP. Some people do both, especially if you were like a leading role like when Wolverine came out, the the lead actors did both pcap and voice. - Do you see it being a trend where maybe actors will need to get proficient in both as time goes on? - There's no such thing as proficient in performance capture.
It's it's an [laughter] - off camera. - It's it's an on camera performance. - It's an on camera performance. There are skills you can learn. You I just taught a performance capture class a couple weekends ago. There are skills you can learn to be comfortable in the environment just as you would in any other uh you know environment that you're working in a new one but it is an on camera performance for what it's worth. There are definitely things about it that you know you you will learn on the job but you don't have to be trained in it in order to do it. - I'm going to argue that PECAP is theater in the round. - Yeah. Yeah. - I feel like the best the best actors I've ever worked with on a PCAP stage have have theater background. Uh because you take people that have film and TV and remove them from having real sets and real props and everything else and they they they don't know what the they're doing [laughter] - which is why they say that is kicking - me.
Oh, I'm sorry. No, nobody nobody told me I can't. They you guys invited me [laughter] - now. Good. A precedent has been the great equalizer, the pecap suit. - Yeah. But I think what like what this does illustrate the all these perspectives point to one thing which is like - be omnivorous. Love the craft of acting. Get better and better and better at that. It's the only thing in your control. Venture capitalists are going to do what they do and they're going to try and ruin the world from every angle that they're they're allowed to do it. And we can't always do anything about that.
But like the the way to get there are plenty of I've seen plenty of TV actors come in and attempt to get cast in a game and not get the role. The the thing that is going to that you can control that is going to make you have career longevity is your ability to show up, have artistic perspective, be excellent, be easy to work with and friendly. um and deliver every time. That is what is going to create career longevity for you in any form of acting in any creative role. And it is happily the one thing you can actually take control of. - There's there's two things too with the celebrities and games argument also uh just for perspective, right? Like because we're addressing like you know the acting community in its totality for the most part, right? That's kind of our goal here today. And celebrities in games or film and TV people in games. That's like I must do at least a thousand sessions a year. And I've been doing this for 25 years. So like probably close to like yeah 25,000 plus or minus, right?
The number and I've worked with quite a few celebrities. Uh you know and it's like uh I'd say that that's maybe a hundred celebrity sessions, right? So, it's not a huge portion of the industry that's of the work that's going to these celebrities. And two is the affordability of celebrities on a project. They're not working for scale. Like, uh, and when, you know, when when our clients kind of talk to us about wanting celebrities on the project, we're like, "Yeah, sure." And we talk to their rep and we get the number and they're either like, "Okay." or most of the time they're like [laughter] so I think that there's it's uh it yeah it's it's it's it's there is a problem but it's not I don't think I don't think it's it's an overwhelming issue yet. I don't know maybe I'm wrong. - Yeah. Concentration of of capital is an issue for the whole world on everything. Um, we talked a little bit about PECAP and I wanted to circle back on that and talk about um, I think everyone can speak to this to some degree on um, a performance capture audition and how it differs from uh, a voice audition and how it differs from an on camera audition uh, because you have all this movement involved. So, I kind of wanted to see if you had any advice for people in terms of what stands out or how to handle a pecap audition. - Uh, yeah, absolutely.
Um, and I'm sure my colleagues can uh, add to that, but um, it's not a TV audition. We don't want you to stand on your mark. We don't want it uh taped from the waist up. We're looking for movement. Um if you're not moving, the animators aren't getting any data. - So, we're looking for you to That doesn't mean you should be moving the whole time. Intentional movement. Uh and we're looking, like he said, theater in the round, blocking like a play, using your environment. We're a lot less picky about backgrounds and things like that. We don't need uh you to be in a self- tape studio for it. We just need you to show that you have ideas about how this character lives in the world. - The your job auditioning, whether you are sending in an MP3 or you're sending in a video of yourself or you're standing in the room with the casting director, is to imagine something for yourself so vividly that you take us there with you.
That's your job. And the material will tell you things about it. And then you'll make choices and make a big strong choice. Strong but wrong is always better than safe and uncertain because we're uh we we want to be taken away from our, you know, laptop where we've watched a thousand of these. We want to be taken away somewhere. And honestly, I think this goes for for VO. I think it goes for PEPA. I think it goes for for television and film. I you guys probably some of you guys probably saw Britt L's audition for Severance. That's not waste up. She acts the scene in her bathroom and it's compelling. It's like watching it on the show except you're in her bathroom.
And that from my perspective as a as a director having some kibbiting on casting uh once Julia has done the very hard work [laughter] um is uh that's what I'm that's what I'm looking for I want you to take us away uh and once again that goes just to sort of like working fundamentals of imaginative play. - If I could just step into this for I'm not a casting professional just a working actor. What I as I listen to this, I just think of everyone watching and I think of the different points in the career and I remember so vividly that point early when like you haven't booked what you want to book yet and you just want to prove something is going to work. And I just want to say like for that piece your salvation is never ever getting it right. It's digging into what what you know it's playing where Julia said to play and it's digging into what Cal said, but it is it lives right here. There is, I swear to God, and I say this all the time and it sounds so cliche. There is one of you. No one will ever do it like you. Like, learn to just be the youest you that is you, [laughter] - you know, and live in the multiverse of me. - No, seriously. Actually, because I cannot tell you how many times I've heard like, "Oh, well, I'm just going to do it like Jennifer Hail or other people," right? Because Jennifer Hail already exists.
So I think imitation of uh you know an archetype or a certain actor that you're that you admire is always a trap because you know it's it's uh it's those tropes exist and the archetypes exist for a reason but you need to bring yourself to it. Also practically speaking I would say actors be okay for pecap using props like it's okay because actually in the volume you have placeholder items. Um, so they don't need to see you mime a teacup. Um, just go ahead and and do it on your own and get a reader who is gonna be good for you. - Abandon forever the idea of trying to find the right take that the casting director is. You you're not you're never going to produce exactly what the narrative designer or the director, the casting director, whoever sent out these sides hears in their head except by accident. It's like shooting an arrow down a hallway and around a corner and hitting a target. It can only happen by mistake. So what you can do [laughter] is pick something that's compelling to you to act. If you make us feel something, we will remember that we you might not land that role. Or we might say, I never heard thought of it that way, but now I got to show the client this because this is so compelling. Or worst case scenario, we'll say, man, that was a great audition.
It's wrong for this, but I'm going to put it in that folder. You have a folder, right? Yeah. [clears throat] Um the Instaccast folder where you go, "This was so compelling. It's wrong for this, but I I'm going to use this person somewhere." I can't tell you how many times I'll go for a first session on a project with an actor, uh you know, and they come into the studio or whatever and they're like, "When did I audition for this?" And we were like, "Oh, yeah. No, you you didn't. Uh you auditioned to play this maniacal cat on a TV show three years ago. Uh, and we thought you'd be great for Lex Luthther. [laughter] It happens a lot um that way. So, and that that only occurs when you kind of act like Babe Ruth and point and swat a ball that way. - Just another little like game industry peak. Um, when you are getting these sides, these um character descriptions, oftent times it's the first thing that's ever been written about the character.
There is no script in advance. the script is being written the entire process of the game and being polished the entire process of the game. So, you have such an opportunity as an actor and this is why we're saying bring yourself, bring your ideas because you have such an opportunity to influence that character with your take on it. So, the youistu is your version of Lex Luthther. We don't want everybody else's version. We don't want an imitation of a previous Lex Luthther. We want the coolest one that you can think of or the meanest one you can think of, whatever it might be. We serve two masters, you guys. We serve the muse and then we serve our need for cash. [laughter] No, truly, cuz we need to eat, right? And we want to prove that we made the right choice and we're not stupid by trying this career. But serving the need for cash will choke the muse.
- Serving the muse will feed the cash. just to for folks who are auditioning on camera and having like I don't work in it but I have I've watched my friends self tapes just to kind of wrap up some of the if if all these things are in place if you are giving a choice that's so bold that it's gives me life when I'm listening to a casting that I scream in my house which I've done like someone just makes such a bold choice that I' I'm like yes got it like that's a lightning strike that's great if that's in place I've watched some on camera self tapes and the amount of stillness is really wild so just to like kind of trying to wrap up like it's going to have more movement it's like if you don't if you're not giving it some life in your body. It's going to be be like a puppet with no puppeteer inside, which is really weird if anyone's ever seen that. It's like dead. It's really odd, right? So, you have to do a little bit of that. Um, I've been on the performance capture stage where folks were like tuning people's facial expressions down and up, right? So, it's not quite on camera still tiny. You want to make choices that could read through however quality the facial capture is. So, a little bit of lift there. And for voice, it can't be as there needs to be and it's a cheat. This is the specialization for games.
It's a cheat to have the a little bit of extra support, a little bit of extra resonance, a little bit of extra clarity without sounding like it's pushed or overannunciated or theater, but it's not really on camera. Like I've I've directed a whole bunch of live action dubbing lately, and that is really like ADR for a film, and you have to strip all of that out. I've brought in amazing games actors and been like, you don't have to lift anything because everything's on the screen, and you need to add it back in for games. You're going to sell everything. It's but it can't sound forced or it can't sound technical technical. Um, so that's like the great slight of hand. I think that is game's voice over. And so all of those components kind of pulled together I think will be your your take. - And I think the key is like elasticity in your ability to do your work and kind of fearlessness to make whatever adjustment is called for like because it also varies. The aesthetic varies from project to project just the way it varies from project to project in fil in film or on stage or in TV. You know, I'm lucky enough to be working on a lot of projects right now where like I want absolute cinematic naturalism. I don't want you to to push or pull.
I want you to get lost in the sauce, right? But there are absolutely games that have a different aesthetic where where to deliver the emotional payload of that project and meet the tone of that game, you are exaggerating. And that's why asking for like a blanket rule about any of this stuff is is kind of nuts because there's myriad variations. The thing the actor can do is is be willing to like boldly walk all the way down one hallway and then be asked to walk all the way back and all the way down another hallway and never get tired of like exploring new corners of that building. But that's where being a gamer or and in fandom is really helpful or being nosy. Being nosy is also really helpful because a lot of times you don't know what the project is - and if you can get anything like the studio, a genre like never mind like whether it's an isometric shooter or you know a third person. Uh it's that is all incredibly valuable because each performance style will be different for those. And so I've been very fortunate in that, you know, cobbling together like little bits of knowledge, I can keep track of what games are on at a time and what I'm auditioning for because an audition for uh GTA is going to be so different than a cozy farming sim. And sometimes you just might not know and you just got to take a swing. Yeah, - that's what take two is for. - That Thank you. [laughter] Don't give me two same takes.
If you're going to do two different takes, make it two different games. - That the the only audition I will hit skip on is the same thing twice. [laughter] - Anything different inspiring like farming sim now though. - I bet there is one out there. - If somebody can get get back to me online, - call the VC guys. There's like a farm farming sim that's also you have to get a star score for your felonies. [laughter] - Farming sim just out here hijacking radishes. - Yeah, [laughter] - you can't take me. - Since we're since we're talking about performance styles, I wanted to touch on since there's a lot of games that are being localized in addition to the ones that are being made in the US. Um, so I thought maybe uh we'd have the actors talk about if there's a difference in performance style and also from a production standpoint working on a game that is um being localized versus one that is being created in the US. What those differences are. - The only experience I have with that is, you know, when you have games that were created in Japan, you know, like the OG game was done there and then they bring it here and Americanize it.
That's my only experience with it. And the only experience I've had is just it's a just a different style. And it also fills me with awe at what those performances those performers do. It's extraordinary. I learned so much. But I don't have a just, you know, it every it's like every TV show is different. Every culture is different. Every flavor is different. Just do your homework. You know, the thing is to get outside yourself. Get out, look at the world, learn, and just be of service. Um, it happens a couple different ways for localization um from other languages into English.
Uh sometimes it's done at the same time and sometimes it's done in like a dubbing way. Uh and those teams I think that you know the aesthetics of each one of those teams is going to be different and what they're looking for out of the performances and the performers is going to be a little bit different depending on the style. A uh you know Dark Souls versus a Nintendo are very different uh you know audition styles. Uh, and a lot of that material that uh, kind of clue is going to come from the script and just it might be five lines and they might only have three words each, but that is a clue because it means that there's no big paragraphs, which means you're probably not in a super narrative uh, you know, or a super narrative role, that kind of thing. So, - I mean, we do tons of it. Uh, so I'd say like from the audition side, are you talking about the audition side or the performance side and the booth? - Um, both. Yeah. And also like the production side in terms of what you have to encounter is it different from - So [sighs] we do things a little differently than most people. Um we're an extremely quality focused studio. Uh so we do everything in our power to make sure that the actors are set up to be like in their best possible uh in their best possible shape to be able to perform. Um so that means we put a ton of work into pre-production.
Um we make sure that all of our ProTools templates are set up. We make sure that um all the OV is uh is is playable. Um and that we're looping to the we're looping to the OV like the the original voiceover performances. Um we make pronunciation guides. We make sure that all uh that all foreign words are pronounced correctly, that all names are pronounced correctly, like all that kind of stuff. So there is a lot more on the pre-production side from from our standpoint. But from the actor's side, um for auditions, right, um when we put out sides, we're usually putting vocal ref in. Um, when we have OV, we'll put uh we'll put links to OV so that you can uh so that you can match. And what we're listening for is your ability to not just mimic what the original actor is doing um in their emotions, but also hitting times, understanding phomic structure, understanding your pacing, and more importantly bringing life to the character that is your own and not just a mirror of to to what the original performance was. like I want to see that you're honoring the character without uh making a photocopy. That's uh that's what's important to me. And then in the booth is the same thing.
Um I need to make sure that you can replicate that performance. You need to make sure that you understand how to time and pace yourself. And the people that are really good at this, they get booked over and over again because it is a skill. Absolutely. Um yeah, I think that's kind of that's the spiel. Um there's a lot of different iterations of what localization can look like just from the technical perspective. Um there are times when you're just matching timing windows. You can kind of do whatever in the middle and there are times where you're matching lip flap and that's a that's an intensely technical skill and the people who can do that and still act are amazing to me. - That was - Yeah. Go finish. - That's most of what I was - Okay. - That's what I was going to say.
[laughter] Um, I think that the two like most useful skills for dubbing are um rhythm. So like musicians do very well with that because it's it's you're sort of matching a rhythm. Um, and then also a lot of dubbing the style is kind of like I would say something akin to like you know soap opera acting how it's like a very specific style and it's supposed to be heightened and like fans have this like very set idea of what the style is supposed to be and it is own thing. Like I don't book a ton of uh anime and dubbing because my because they care a lot about how your voice the quality of the tone of your voice as opposed to you know having it be more grounded. So for that for a lot of dubbing it just kind of does pay to imitate voices. So it's but you know then there are some other localization and different kinds of games that also do require a different breadth of uh performance. Um and that was a very kind way for you to say that frequently in the booth there's not a lot of resources for the actor. Um - sometimes um I mean in the way that we do things we do balance between how we would normally produce first language versus second language. Um so - no I mean I'm saying for your studio it sounds like you provide a lot of context a lot of uh you know the timing references. A lot of times for dubbing it's just kind of like ma match it and come up with sometimes you have to improvise dialogue because they didn't translate it quite correctly. So it's kind of you got to kind of really love dubbing - and it can vary enormously depending on who you're working for. Like when in the rare occasion when I'm doing localization, I feel like part of my job is to persuade the overseas developer that localization includes localizing sensibilities, - right?
So like maybe the character is high and squeaky and that's the convention in the original language, but like I know that if the little sister is high and squeaky to an American audience, they're going to want to turn it off, right? Right. And so I persuade them to let us do a more familiar western little sister archetype or whatever. There and there are jobs where they're willing to spend the money or the time or just the trust to do that. Um and then there are others where you're working for an intermediary and you're churning. And so it it can really vary based on what you're working on. - I think beyond that is also specific to the genre of piece that you're working on. So if you're doing for example like something that you know like is intrinsically Japanese, you do want to preserve the character archetypes and the character voicings of the original Japanese because that is what the audience in the English world is going to want to expect as well. Um so there is a balance that that is struck. But if you're doing something that's like more globally relatable or like uh you know like a western story just that happens to be you know JP first or CN first or whatever it is um yeah obviously like transferring those archetypes. Um you know there there's a separate wheel of archetypes for western versus versus eastern media. Um so and there is there are like kind uh analoges that you can draw as well but um I was going to say also kind of like building off of like what what you were saying like strengths in the booth right.
So it's um it's not just about like you know uh like rhythm uh which is very important um but also like emotional intelligence uh being able to hear a performance in another language and extract the emotional data from it which not everybody seems to be able to do - right uh especially in a language that people are not familiar with. So [snorts] we have this problem a lot with Mandarin where um where people hear the musicality of the of the language and infer emotions that are not present in the in the performance. So it's uh it's a tricky skill. Um so it's there's a lot more it's it's a lot more skill-based. It's a lot more [sighs] global awareness based. Uh so if you're you have familiarity with the language of the the first of the origin language as well, it makes your job a lot easier. So yeah, - it's kind of like when we're doing um you're doing voice matching in English, right? You're matching a celebrity or something like that. That voice matching isn't really voice matching. It's choice matching, - right? You're trying to perceive the mechanism by which an another actor makes psychology decisions for this character and make similar choices. And it's it's like related to that skill, I would say, to try to certainly perceive the intention of the underlying material uh in that way that you describe.
- I feel like you practiced all these bites in advance. [laughter] - They really did. - Spend the day with them. - Yeah. My my writing partner likes to [laughter] she tells me that I I like to tell people things. - Good thing you're a director. The best. - And uh that's not wrong. [laughter] - You're losing it. - I um I want to talk a little bit about the role of the director for games because um sorry - I am because [laughter] uh why a very a very smart person once said I can't take credit for this. Voice actors are the short order cook of acting. Um, and uh, because video games can be so um, limited for the amount of information that you get going in, a lot of times you don't know as an actor what you are getting until you go in.
So, I wanted to talk um like Sarah and Kell like how this affects your work as a director and if there's like a general piece of advice you can give to an actor like how to prepare for a session that you may not know anything about until you see that Excel spreadsheet um what you would say. So, the industry has changed a lot since I started doing it. Uh there were in the old days we would have sessions where we get the scripts that morning directors also uh and it was expected that we would knock out you know 300 lines in four hours or whatever. Um and at that in those days it was like make a choice run the page A's and B's fix the ones that are embarrassing. [laughter] Um, - it's still happening at hotel most you get to stay in, but at my hotel there's noise and like - it's not it's not never that. Um, I will say industrywide, particularly in the AAA space, you're much more likely to have access to the script at least the night before. You might have to request it because there are people who like just going in cold. They've been doing it that way for a long time. And you know, it might be worth having your agent or whoever reach out and say like, "Hey, we'd like to get the scripts in advance." Um, and if you have access to that material ahead of time, then your prep is your prep. Whatever you would do with a script normally, right? You know what is it? The the method is what works, right?
Whatever your particular prep is is what you're going to do. Um, the the format will sometimes include significantly less context than you're used to in a screenplay formatted document. Um, and that is why I bang on about like building these improv skills and building elasticity because um, it may be that on the day nobody's seen it except for one client who's on Zoom and can't see what we're doing very well. And it may require us to uh, trying a bunch of diff really different approaches initially until we can triangulate in on what they're actually looking for. And so like timidity about that is bad. Um you're going to want to be able to like say like okay let here is one where he has a complex relationship to his father. Here's one where he doesn't and which sounds more right to you guys. And then they'll tell you and you'll kind of hone in on it. So that that ability to cultivate like elasticity in the emotional body, to be willing to try a bunch of different stuff with very short notice, to not worry about it being right or perfect, but just like dive into the theater of the mind, dive into imagination land, make it real, make it compelling for you in that moment. it. That is the skill because whether you're working on a great AAA game where you're getting screenplay pages two weeks in advance and having table reads or you're showing up that morning and seeing an Excel spreadsheet, um the the the ability to just kind of like get lost in it, come all the way back, go in a different direction, get lost in that, come all the way back is going to be the defining thing that we're looking for. And to to jump into that, for a lot of us actors, that feels like making a terrible mistake.
Get used to making terrible mistakes and embarrassing the snot out of yourself and b and having no opinions about it. It's the having no opinions about it that's magic. Because if you make a choice and you're like, "Oh, no." And you internally freeze, all your creativity goes, "Ah," and runs and hides. But if you've done it so many times very publicly, you're like, "Eh, I do it all the time. Another face plant. What do you need?" You don't care. And you don't lose your creativity. And you've got that thing that he just named. - Yeah. I think I don't want to retread because all of that was so beautifully put and it's the same stuff, but I do feel I feel like the immense the trust that my actors are putting in me as a director is really immense because they just don't have like when I talked before about having the set around you, there's so much information around you that feeds your performance that you can kind of be opinionated about. You're like, I'm looking at the same thing. I'm looking at the same scene.
This isn't right. yada yada. Every you're in a cave. you're in a very dark cave when you're literally in a soundproof cave to do most of this work most of the time and I'm your only flashlight and now the information I give you is the only thing that's shining light on on information that you can use to have a spark to have a creative impulse from. So like I'm very moved often by the trust and vulnerability that those actors are bringing into that booth because they kind of don't have anything to base an opinion on other than me reflecting something back to them or translating something from the team. So yeah, it's a tricky paradox to be like have big bold, you know, passionate moves and then also let them go because you don't you can't even tell if they're right or wrong because you just don't even have enough information. Um so it's it's I find it very precious and like and so that kind of energy, the willingness to play um and the the vividness of your own imagination. I think there's a lot of um and balancing that flexibility and ownership. Um, so ownership of the information that you think you might need like I actors that come in that are like hey actually you know it would really help me if I knew how far away that person is or like do is he my father like could you tell me that much you know things like that questions - ask questions take ownership of no that's your acting fundamentals like you know certain things you need to have in order to like build a scene and so bring those in and then of course the answer could sometimes be we don't know if he's your father or your brother yet and so you have to like make a choice and then let that go and then have that humility to be like Okay. Um, in games, coverage is, you know, in film, coverage is getting all these different shots. In games, coverage is like covering all this ambiguousness around what could be final, what's going to work, and sort of really getting options is about like, oh, we're going to know when we implement it, and we might not know until then. Um, so yeah, I think those conditioning like ownership and flexibility, um, ownership of your instrument.
I, as much as I take that responsibility of being decisive and a guide, I also don't want to be a dictator at all. I really need to collaborate with you, especially when it comes to your physical safety, your emotional safety. So, if you come in, it's so it's a relief when an actor comes in and is aware of how their voice is doing in the middle of a session if they need some breaks, some water, that helps the team cuz most teams most teams don't want to just actually shred your instrument, right? They want that from you. But if you're too eager to please or you're too too timid, you could blow yourself out for either their sessions for their game or other work that week, right? So coming in with that like deep self-nowledge and ownership while also being childlike and and vulnerable and and willing to kind of send it if we decide something something else has to happen. Um I think all those ingredients are things that I look for in actors. - Just following up on that, the um the work of an actor in these sessions, in these game sessions is that of an athlete. These sessions are hardcore to go 4 hours and do as many lines as you're doing and change your emotional state as many times as you're changing. Like you said, the elasticity of going to a really dark place and then all of a sudden the next scene is a nice bright scene. All that stuff happens so quickly. It is it is a hard thing to do.
And so there is a lot of just uh having endurance and being able to pull off. You can't just start in this field and do a 4-hour session. It just does not work. You have to have endurance. - It's less preparation and more conditioning is kind of how I tell people. - Yeah. - I want to point out too, I mean, like, you know, if you're working with a good director, they should be giving you that emotional space to recover from difficult emotions. But if you're working with somebody who maybe is newer to this or maybe just hasn't come up against this before and doesn't really have the knowledge set uh and you need that like 5 10 minutes to like go cry in the bathroom or be in a safe space or whatever, take it like like ask for it, you know, like it's uh it's it's you have to advocate for yourself in the booth as well. - Yeah. And to your point, I I also I I'm getting very fluffy these days with PE, you know, actors focusing on emotion, and it's so important, but don't skip that top layer. People don't set out to feel things. They set out to do things in the course of which they have feelings they don't want to have.
What are some of those best actors out there? They're not trying to feel, they're trying to do, and then they run into obstacles and they have an emotional experience they've got to get through, you know, and and just bringing it back around to what you were saying and to your point about voice directors, when you go in there. Yes, flashlights are good to have, but your job is to come in as a Swiss Army knife. Like, I've thought about this. I'm malleable. I am a giant. I am the biggest, coolest honk of clay you've ever seen. Let's go. I got this corner. I got that corner. I got ideas. I am so free of self- judgment and self-importance and self-involvement.
I can focus on the project and let's just let me just bring you all this goo to play with. And when I'm done, see, I'm very I'm very fussy about when people have big emotions. Like I've seen actors use it as an excuse to like just own the space for 20 minutes and I'm like they're on the clock. They got bills to pay. Let's go. Like yes, take a second, but it's your job to adult. Let's go. You got another scene to do. Let's go. - But I'm a hard ass that way. - My favorite thing a director has said to actors before the session begins. Let's play.
- Yes. So - when I started doing this, - one of the first things that hooked me, right, was like I could do this for the rest of my life because that first session I did, it was like it was it was we're just playing Makebelie. We're just hanging out, playing, having a makeelieve, having a play session. And that's how I've approached every session I've done for the next 25 years, right? We're here to play together. Let's have fun. - And it just back to this this what we're talking about. We're dancing around the edges of it. It is so easy as an actor and as the emotional sort of center of what's happening in the moment to think that it's about you. It ain't about you. It never was. It's about the universal human experience that happens to be running through you in that moment.
Never forget that. And I I will say from my seat - for my job well it you're you're not you're right but also like for me my experience is about you right it's about doing generating whatever it is that you need to have your best possible day doing this work - and one thing I think this issue of asking questions requesting the space you need asking for more context you know suggesting to people the best way for you to work. I think there can be a tendency as an actor when you're on that side of the glass isolated from sound to think that everybody on the other side knows exactly what they are doing and exactly what they want and you're the one holding them up and oh my god can I please have some permission to [laughter] live and the - that is also - the opposite thing is true when you make these sort of proactive moves to request information request the things you need to have a great day you're not just making it easier for you are actually making it easier for them to not have to do. It's just like communication with any partner, right? Like to have to read somebody's mind is difficult, but if they tell you what they need, you can meet their needs, right? And so like so many times when you're in there having that little crisis of confidence, there is somebody on the other side of the glass, same thing. First time director, uh a an audio technician at a at a software company who suddenly got put in charge of casting and has never done it before. - Yeah. And yes, they're out there having their own imposter syndrome. And if you go in and you say, "Is this all right?" They're going to go, "Oh my god, they don't know what they're doing." And they're going to go down the shame toilet. [laughter] But if you come in and you and you're like, "Hey, I'm a professional. Here's a concrete thing.
We can all look at my my perspective, and here's the tools I would love for you to use to help me reshape it." Then they go, "Oh, good God. Thank God." They know what they're doing. And then they can finally sort of relax and give you the things that you need, the useful things that you need to guide the the performance. You're actually doing the other folks a service by doing those things. It can feel selfish and self-focused initially, but we've hired you for this job. You're only in that room because you're supposed to be and because you have perspective. So tell us what you need to do your best thing. Ask the questions you need to ask. you're actually it's going to be better for you, but it's also going to be better for that person. And look, this is an industry where you are going to occasionally, if you're lucky, you'll be facing one of these lovely people. Um, but you are also occasionally going to be working with somebody who doesn't know really what they're doing yet. And you can help them improve by politely, you know, you don't be a jerk about it, but kindly requesting the things that will help you have the best session.
And when you like, oh, hey, I I really need some physical data about how how close am I to this person? Like, what what's their reaction to me? They answer that question enough for you, they're going to learn that that's the kind of stuff actors need. And then the next person who comes into the booth with that person, they're going to say, "Let me tell you about let me tell you all about the physical proximity, right? And suddenly they're better at at their job." So, you're you're you're doing a kindness to everybody involved, including your fellow actors, by making those requests. I think the only last thing that occurs to me to say is is and it has to do with it ties in the feelings, the question of feelings. I think everything in your performance is meant to to reveal something important to the player. And that thing that's important could be the story beats of this relationship. The why you're even do why are we running around swinging swords? Like what for what reason, you know, or how dangerous is it? Like should I be feeling like this is I'm in danger or am I in stealth or am I not in danger? And we're just having a fireside chat.
like that's all of that's game state character information for the for the player to use to connect with and to use to play the game. Um and so that's always kind of the service of it. Um the other thing about that I think the feelings part coming in is like feelings are things you feel in your body and I feel like this is what I spend maybe um most of my time getting someone who's pretty really really good like who's got sounds great and you know understands what we're doing into like selling the world is I can hear that they've got adrenaline in their body. I can hear that there's their their cortisol is spiking. They're use they're not just we talk about recruiting your body and using it to to for your performance. But I think like the physical states that your body goes through especially in games when there's a lot of combat and there's a lot of you know violence and just being under immense duress. It's like grounded performance but really heightened stakes. So like that extra layer of like what does it feel like to be scared or focused with you know when lives are on the line. that extra layer of embodiment um and sort of sense memory of like what does it feel like to have this or that um you know hormone happening to me um really really elevates stuff into like whole and and that will mirror for the player. I mean there's there's games that have done this before with like anxiety you know Last of Us part two just breath alone right um you know they had you know when that character is going through having a panic attack like the your human beings watching that mirror that experience and so um all of those things in your body will um again sell that player on the immersion of of the experience and so that extra layer of embodiment is something I wind up focusing on a lot with actors who otherwise sound like the character and are having a good conversation or whatever they're doing you know if it's loud if it's projected I don't want it to just be I've started using send it instead of just project it because you need that information to reach someone very specific across a distance. You're not just sort of blabbing to empty space. You need someone to hear that, you know, thick grenade is out before they get blown up, right?
So, there's a purpose behind it. Um, so that's the last thing I would add. - I would say also in addition to everything that everyone has said about craft and about play and about advoc advocating for yourself and knowing information, you need to remember that it is a video game. Doing a video game is very different than even doing an animated cartoon because you have to have like there's no rewinding the game. If you're doing a cinematic scene or if you're doing a a bark, people need to get that information. So, as grounded as your tone may be, it still needs to read like with your diction and it still needs to indicate to a player like if you're mumbling to yourself like, "Oh, I bet that lock goes there." you know, it it's it's conveying information because I think I a trap that I have seen people fall into is like focusing so much on the craftsmanship and the acting and being like, well, what's my motivation? And like, dude, your motivation is getting the player into the doorway over there. - Get get the player to hit the X button right now. - Yeah. Get get that player cuz at the end of the day, like Yes. All yes to all of the acting of it and the the embodying, but also truly we are there to move the player through the world. And I think that that is something that people can sort of like get caught up in, you know, that the craft of it as opposed to the actual nuts and bolts of games.
I said - I will always try as a director to add an acty reason on top of like okay I know it has to be faster because the player's just run away and is missing the line but like I will try to create some reason for urgency as a director I feel like that's some a way I can help [laughter] you - that's the thing about acting for video games is it's so much more technical than any other even kind of voiceover because there are technical limitations like your sound file needs to fit into this certain space you need to tell the player to get from point A to point B, you need to like put in a subtle clue for later. And you know, it's all in service of not just story, but game. So much more than other mediums. To that point, there is there's so much going on in games and game production that is not happening in in film or TV or animation. You know, it's all about the character and the story in all those mediums. It's about a game. And I am always so painfully aware of the massive workload and technical load that walks in that room. and that we're a much smaller percentage of the equation and and our job is to bring in all these tools and to a point that was made much earlier. Something I think is incredibly powerful for all actors. Spend a little time on the other side of the glass. If you're in production, I I was a PA when I was in high school, like at a professional studio. And the things and skills that I learned on the other side of the camera made me look amazing on a set and I was just like any other dummy.
But I knew the other side. So know the full equation. Like be conscious of that. And it's not all that dissimilar from like knowing when you're on camera that you're going to adjust your performance a little bit if you're getting a closeup than if you're in the wide, right? It's or that like yes, you have to get lost in the scene, but you also have to hit this mark, right? It's the same principle. You're aware of the fact that we are here to produce a product of some kind, right? As well as have a beautiful artistic experience. And it is your job to kind of synthesize those two goals. - Synthesis, I think, is the thing because people sometimes talk about icing or like, you know, we're not the most important thing. And I'm like, we're chocolate chips. We're in the thing.
We're part of the we're not like an extra limb. Like we are part of the thing. And we're not like the rest of the flat. Well, there's a whole lot of stuff in that muffin, but we are chocolate chips. And like people are really responsive to the human voice. Like we really connect. It's a very notable piece of a sound mix. Like we're just biologically we resonate with it. whether the performance is good or bad, it's going to be it's going to hit the player in a really obvious way. So like yeah, so that truly having that synthesis where you're not overly precious and kind of getting lost in the sauce, but you do like it's your job to want to make the thing good and for the performance to add something meaningful to the performance and not to just be like, well, it doesn't really matter. It's not the most important thing. So like finding a way to take ownership of that piece and really bring the value and the ad the added joy that it can add to the thing while also understanding the full piece and like and how it harmonizes with all these other components and like how it serves them effectively.
- I think my intention in terms of you know framing us as icing was speaking to the technical demands and the structural demands of games versus film and TV. And to tag on to your chocolate chip sample um there is nothing like the human soul in a game. There's nothing to carry a signal like the human soul and that is an incredibly precious precious thing. I think it's very important to have in there. - Yeah. - Circling back around to the meta topic, right? Like you know how how games are in 2026, right? State of the industry. Something that hasn't changed a jot since we started putting voice in games, especially in like what I'd say is like the modern era, like Xbox and on, right? Uh or like ' 90s PC and on. So there's three information systems in games that dialogue applies to, right? There's systemic data, your barks, right?
So it's that that's gameplay data that needs to be immediate, right? It's it's giving it's telling players about the action that is happening in the world as it relates to their gameplay in an immediate sense. Short, succinct barks. There's uh there's transversal uh stuff, you know, the the things to fill the boring gap between point A and point B, right? that's to give you your missions and to to to further you along and let you know if you're going in the right direction, all that kind of stuff. And then there's cinematics. And cinematics, most people don't realize, they're just there to let the engine load uh because it's cheap. It's it's Yeah, it's true. I mean, like [laughter] like it was it was cheaper. It was cheap because uh back in the day, it was cheaper to fire a uh or a flash like uh on the engine and let and let maps load underneath uh while like there's a mechanical reason for it. - Sometimes we squeeze through narrow spaces. - Yeah.
But like Yeah. Or or Oh. Oh man. [laughter] Maybe maybe there's a ladder or a train or an elevator an elevator, guys. - But uh but the point is the point is is like those those three systems haven't changed uh in the entire modern era. So there's something that's been consistent at least. - One thing that everyone was talking about too, I think that it was that how an actor having an emotional experience is going to resonate with the player and it's going to have a shared emotional experience. And I I think was we touched on this very briefly at the beginning um but I wanted to circle back because a lot of people are are concerned about AI not just in video games but in all areas of performance. So I thought I would kind of open that up. Um because judging from what I'm hearing now I don't think that can be replicated. Um but I would like to know like Heather like as an agent like like do you has has technology changed the way you talk to your clients about contracts? And also just like what how the general room feels about [laughter] in terms of how things are going forward with this.
- Hello, we're starting the AI topic with a minute and 30 on the clock. - Yeah, I know. It's like I I have - a minute 30 and I - Heather goes [laughter] how we talk about contracts has changed the meaning of contract languages language. Obviously, you know, we're also in a brand new IMA agreement that actually contemplates AI and how it's going to be used and some companies are starting to want to try it out. For the most part, it's only being asked for in places in use cases that are where some a premium performer couldn't do it, you know, like interacting in real time, things like that. Um, and we don't yet know how any of that is going to play out. So uh [laughter] I often am saying to my actors when they ask the question I you know first I say don't don't respond with fear you know because you know you can have your opinion on it I have no problem everybody feels every which way and if you don't want to touch AI because of the environment don't that's that's that's your prerogative you don't have to um but if it's just out of fear I would say to ask questions and learn about why is it being used what's the use case you know is this a use case where a human could do this job well if it is a use case where a human could do this job, why are they instead using AI? And that may be your line in the sand and everybody has it. The other thing I say to them when they ask about the rates and how they work in the IMA is I'm like, you know what, no one knows yet. So, if you are game to be a guinea pig pig and work this contract and learn with the rest of us, like, let's do it. If you're not and you don't have that appetite, this one might not be for you, you know? Um because we're all going to have to learn together and then get back to the union with information and actors are going to have to talk about how this is paying out, how it's operating, how it's working, their experiences so that we can continue to make better and better contracts for actors and as as it goes forward.
- Anyone has questions about how the rates work, feel free to ask. [laughter] - Also, I I know we - but but it's well, it's hard to know how they'll play out. It's like contemplating - if if the value is accurately set for the saying I don't understand them. I'm saying when you actually look at it, the there are there's like you could get really into the meat on this, but there are some things that are very complex. And even in talking to the union and Zeke and I have had back and forth on some of this, like I'm like, well then when do they pay this and when would they pay that? What if they don't get to 300 lines? what if they like there's just a lot of whatifs in how it pays out and would it be it could really maybe be a really monetarily beneficial opportunity but we just don't know until we actually start working it and see how it plays out in real - there's a standard of reasonable specificity which is highly open to interpretation in terms of like what information you're required to have and so you could have different versions of that that in particular I would say is like one of the things we're most interested in hearing from members as they start to experience this is like what does that It's it's it's there for you know is that for me additional lines is not spec specific enough to be like oh okay but what kind of lines what kinds of you know content things like that. Um so yeah so there is there's there is an experimental phase where we're going to be information gathering and trying to tune that but yeah but it is up to the first 300 lines. [laughter] - Yeah I'm I'm not trying to be like it's but ultimately I think people just they have to understand that there is a there is a risk to it. There is a there is an aspect of an unknown. this is a contract we haven't worked. We don't know where all the gray areas are yet.
I know as an agent there's always gray areas like there's things we didn't anticipate that come up. And so it's like are you willing to are you willing to participate in the experiment here and play, you know, are you willing to do that? And a lot of actors are um and I like to have that conversation with them because I will say I've had actors go in for these sort of jobs and and people ask them do they know what they're doing and they're like yep Heather told me I'm a guinea pig today. Uh, I I would like to say contracts aside, um, to any actors worried about AI taking your jobs or worrying about one thing or the other, AI is a pyramid scheme. It is not good. It cannot do what we do. It's uh, a bunch of people, a bunch of guys who have decided that they needed to invest all of our money into it. And if it fails and we don't use it and do all the fancy bells and whistles that um they claim it can do, uh then there the bubble is going to burst. - Yeah. - And I think I think to that point - it's not do not worry about AI. Do not like uh do not do not worry that you're going to get left behind. It's going to crash and burn and it's going to be a failure.
And if you have any money invested in AI, you should get it out now. [laughter] PE people's people recoiling from AI is not a matter of conditioning. I hear all the time like, "Oh, people don't like it now, but when kids grow up with it, they're going to be f." It's not the case. It's in the hardware, - not in the software. - Kids hate it. - There's a reason. It's a It's the same principle as the uncanny valley, right? We're social primates. - We've evolved over millions of years to be the way we are. To a social primate, the sound of deception is the sound of danger. That's why a child in Pikipsy with zero acting experience can hear bad acting because it's a survival mechanism thing. - The part where I said like you shouldn't replicate Jen Hail.
That is all an AI can do is just take Jen Hail's voice and be like give me a Commander Shepherd better and she'll do it better. - Well, here's the other thing too though. The whole the thing that fascinates me about the AI conversation is the amount of fear and polarization. This community is survives through our recognizing that we are all one community with the same interest. We have different interpretations. We had different experiences. We're at different places in our careers or or this year's career or last year's career. That's one thing. and us coming together and just taking a beat. And don't react. Like, pause, respond, think, and trust your agents. They want you to do well.
And here's the other thing. Trust your partners. These producers are our our work partners. They are not a one of them. Well, there's probably some and I don't want to know them. [laughter] Most of them are not out to get us or steal from us. - They're our fellow workers community. Yes. - [laughter] - I I I don't do this because I want to be a prompt engineer. - It's not very much C. - Hell and I are prompt engineers for people. That's what we do.
We're offering direction and we get an immediate, efficient, embodied, highly value added result. That's what we have honed our skills to be. - And we're cheaper and we use less water. - Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. I don't know. I've seen you drink. - Plus, I'm very thirsty. But - yeah, - there's this like romanticization of it being techy, [laughter] which I think our industry is maybe sort of glamorized by. you know, that think that new technology is valuable and and all that other stuff. And um and I I hear so the idea of prompting a mysterious machine to do it somehow maybe has a little more like romance or newness feeling to it. But it is really what we already do.
- Capitalism is going to capital Exactly. Right. There are going to be people who are going to try Exactly. really hard to monetize this because a lot of money has been put into making this the thing, right? They're not they're not not going to be attempts. And that's why having a strong union and strong contractual terms that protects you from from miscreants, right? But and because they're they will attemp they will attempt to do it. But in the fundamental sense of what your job is about, which is making people feel things, you are the only tool that can do that effectively. - Ain't nobody can human like a human. - [laughter] - Well said. I um I always like to close with something like this. Everyone here has had so many years of experience in this in this area of performance or in this industry.
Um I wanted to see given how the industry's changed since you first started um if you were starting out today, what would you do differently or what piece of advice would you give for someone who is starting out today? I mean, that's a tough question because the industry was in such a different place back then. Yeah. Everything was much more handshake, go for drinks, get the deal done. Now, it's very, you know, give me your pitch deck, let's go through eight layers of bureaucracy before we even get into your system. Right? So, there's like it's it's a much more complex and mature industry than it was back then. And we were not as mature back then either, right? So, there's been growth and there's going to continue to be growth. Um, so to com to compare kind of like today to to then uh getting into it today, you got to take this stuff way more seriously. That's it. - I wish I had a more fun answer.
Oh, but keep it fun. - As as someone who hires not just for performers, but directors and editors, recording studios, all sorts of things. Work ethic is not something that is just happens across the board. - Um it is hard to find people who work hard and are dedicated to their craft. As long as you continue to do that, you will have success in this industry. I am sure of it because nobody that works super freaking hard doesn't get anything. - It's being kind, - showing up. You have to show up. You have you can't just sit at home - like be there in studio but be show a session. Okay, got it. Yeah, - in session but also in community not just trying to meet people like us but meet meeting other performers at the same level as you because they are the people that are you are going to come up with. We've all known each other for many many many years.
We were not always in the positions that we're in. We've all come up and that's what you will do with your community. So just being like a pleasure to be around help give before you take. and help people before you're Yeah. asking for things and it you and work hard. - Yeah. That part has never changed. It's it's be nice, - be good, and uh and focus. That's it. Work hard. - It it really is not rocket science because there are a lot of people that are not able to do that for one reason or another. It may be that you have distractions uh with other parts of life which happen for everyone and there's phases of of lives for that.
But there is a a marked difference between people who are just dedicated to the craft, really awesome to be around, and helpful. - I'm going to steal a friend's quote. Hungry, humble, and honest. - Show up like that. - I think if I were I think if I were starting now, I would want to hear to pay the internet less attention. M - um I like I'm old enough to remember a time when people did not routinely disembowel themselves emotionally for clicks [laughter] - and I think I think I see actors sometimes getting confused between the difference between an actor and an influencer. - An actor working in our field is representing gigantic corporations with very specific ideas of what kind of conduct they want to be associated with. And I think the internet is increasingly u a rage machine to uh farm eyeballs. Um be cautious of the attention economy. - You [clears throat] will be better at this and get more jobs doing it in any workshop of just even three of your friends sitting around unpaid reading scripts to each other. is that's going to be better for you than than any amount of uh influencing uh or or or farming for clicks. I understand actors have to promote themselves.
I'm not telling you to get off there completely, but I'm saying try to distinguish what is relevant to engage with from what is irrelevant. And if you're This is Rupaul talking. If they're not paying your bills, pay them no mind. - Oh, yeah. I I I miss I hope this comes back. This is not advice I can give now because the public squares the internet public squares have been destroyed. But when I first started being visible on the internet for vote visible Twitter was a different place in time. I'm I was seeking my collaborators. It was I wasn't advertising like for to you know to seem busy. I was trying to connect with like minds making interesting work. Like the Twitter was at that time a great place to learn about game design and game making for free to learn about the industry to bat ideas about what games could do and be back and forth to like really get a flavor for someone's creative brain as a developer and for me to kind of invite them into this chaos. Um, and it was like I genuinely made friends that are still some of my dearest friends in this industry.
And I'm very very sad for people now that doesn't that's not the vibe. I do see it kind of recoalesing in things like discords and smaller scale spaces online and I really encourage people to go find that like my the folks who listen to my games podcast are all in like more brilliant than me talking in the in my in our discord about stuff. There there exists other discords and places like that. Um and in person events events are changing. The event landscape is changing. The indust you know as far as um conferences and things. But I I I want to hold on to that advice because I that has been the most rewarding and consistent part of it for me is like find places and ways to actually connect with people you want to make stuff with that really make you excited about this medium and make you excited to play a game. Um and that is a very different motivation than just sort of maybe trying to seem busy or whatever else that might be. Um, and I wish that I could be very specific about what tools those are now. But I think it's all kind of in flux, but finding physical spaces to be in with people who make games and talk about them. Um, or virtual spaces is has always been the most like rewarding and and career rewarding um, place for me. - And I think go like a good rule of thumb is go on the internet to show love.
- Yeah. - Right. Go on the internet to engage with people you admire and tell them why you like their stuff. Great. Go on the internet to find other artists to be inspired by. Great. go on the internet because you saw a movie and you enjoyed it and you have thoughts about it, great. If you if you're going there out of love, you're probably going to be fine. - You know, I think you were talking about start, you know, for somebody starting today. I think it's really useful to step back for a second and take a beat - and figure out why you're doing what you're doing. We get handed these definitions of success and then we dive in trying to win them before even assessing, did I actually want that? What is it I'm chasing?
find your joy because this is a career where you can't control a lot. - You can control your inputs but you can't control the outcomes. And so creating a life that fills you up and and days that you feel good about because I I mean I like the hit by a bus thing. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow. How was today? And I like the deathbed lens. When you're on your deathbed, you're not going to give a crap how many jobs you booked. You're gonna care about the cool fun stuff you did, the people you did it with, and the kind of life that you lived, right? - Yes. Cal was - a workaholic. I will absolutely care [laughter] about something. - But you do with the people you love.
- Dan, if I'm on my deathbed and I'm in America, I'm going to definitely think about how many jobs - that too. That Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Well, but by then, if you're death, it's somebody else's problem. - [laughter] - Um - I we've just spent an hour plus talking about working in games. - Yeah. - I'm curious as what is everybody playing? - Yeah. - Wolverine. You say [laughter] Wolverine. Erica, what are you playing?
- Um I'm playing Well, uh gang, the Ghost of Yote uh DLC, Echoes of Techi Gajara are is dropping tonight, uh tomorrow, October 1st. Um, I'm also playing uh Wind Waker. I just love Wind Waker. Um, and gosh, there's another one. Oh. Oh my. I'm showing my girlfriend uh Return of the Ora Den for the first time. - Mhm. And I still have a game of blueprints that I'm [laughter] like still noodling around in. So, yeah, I've got a lot a lot going at once. - What about you, Michael? Uh, well, I play I do play what I make.
Uh, I'm a player for Infinity Nikki. Uh, I've been playing it since the day it dropped. I I love it. Um, but I also uh like uh when I'm playing with uh with like uh my daughter, I usually play uh Overcook 2 cuz we just love shouting at each other. [laughter] - And then uh I finally I finally got around to to like all on my phone sometimes play a lot of like indie narrative stuff. So like um South at the Pole was was excellent and like um uh Peter Panic uh which is a a musical uh put basically the play that goes wrong about Peter Pan. It's hey play it. Uh yeah that's the kind of stuff I play. - I don't play games. [laughter] - Heather hey - ass. [laughter] Heather, what are you what are you watching? What are you What are you - Put me on the spot and let's just keep going.
We have the - mod land. - Uh speaking of Overden, uh like deduction uh games are my whole kind of jam right now. Um so I just finished uh an indie uh game called Incident the Incident at Galley House. Um which if we want to piece together um who was, you know, where, when, and why, um and how everybody managed to die in one night, that kind of thing. Um delightful, wonderful. I think TR49 is going to be my next guy from Inkl. Um uh I I'm midway through a playthrough of Chance of Sonar and I really need to get back to that. Super super super good. Um and I'm playing obsessively on my phone house. My my game my podcast is in a a retrospective on a a a mobile game designer mostly mobile um named Michael Bro. Um very influential kind of like your well so this is not me saying this but favorite game designer favorite game designer kind of energy. Um and so CO house on my phone.
Um, all the instructions are in Portuguese. There are no other languages offered, so you just have to vibe. Um, it's fantastic and a very obsessive. Um, so yeah, those are those are the ones I'm on now. - I did just uh beat Wolverine. I'm very happy about that. Um, I can't always beat games that I cast. Uh, thankful to the Wolverine team for making a god mode so I couldn't die so [laughter] I could beat the game. Um, and I also am playing Forbidden Solitaire, which is an excellent game. If you haven't played around with it, it's PC Steam, but uh, it's a classic solitaire with a twist. - I confess, I'm a lurker. I lurk and watch people play because I suck at it.
And I've been lurking some Long Dark. Um, and I've been lurking my kid playing Rocket League. Yeah. [laughter] - Uh I I will be absolutely playing the Ghost of Fote uh DLC cuz I love that game. - Um it had inspiration on me when we were doing Wolverine actually. Um and then uh I really loved I just finished playing South of Midnight. I think that has some of the best voice performances in it of the of the previous year. I absolutely love that game. - Uh and then um I'm playing one called Ledgerbound. - Oh yeah. There's a uh the the writer of Hell Divers 2, which I worked on. This is his new project, - Union Contracting.
- It's insane [laughter] in the best way. It's about uh you are a uh insurance adjuster in a D&D style fantasy world who has to do RPG uh real-time RPG type actions to prove that heroes shouldn't have died and deny their claim. [laughter] - Oh my god, this is so niche. - It's unhinged. [laughter] And you? - I have a fresh copy of Control Resonant. Wait, - I'm really excited. I love those remedies. - Frankie, - uh, I played Wake 2 just in preparation for - it came so weird. I love [laughter] - Control One. - No, [clears throat] I mean, I like that game, but I was like I don't know. I really I really I really felt the Alan Wake uh the crossover.
Yeah, - there is so much information on this. I'm gonna have to rewatch this with like my computer and take notes. [laughter] - Thank you. Nobody told me. - I just Thank you all for coming. This was such an informative and helpful panel. - Thank you. [applause] [music]
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